Early 80s Raleigh Tourer model ID (Record??) and options for period-/original spec-correct "downgearing"

[z23]

Hello,

I am new to the Forums here but am hoping this is the right place to post as I am going over to Ireland in September and hoping to do some renovation/modification work on my Dad's old early 1980s Raleigh tourer to make it more rideable on the beautiful but very undulating and often punishingly steep roads of Co. Donegal!



My first query is to try to establish what the original model was so that I can establish what the original spec would have been and hopefully then modify the gearing to make it a little less leg-busting to ride over the local terrain (it currently has what by my count is a 44 46 single chainring at the front and 6-speed 14-23 cogs at the rear ).

The Frame number (on the rear of the seat tube) is NA2016824.



Which according to the info I could find online (e.g. here and on Sheldon Brown) means it was manufactured in the Nottingham in January 1982 (I think but TBC....)
N=Nottingham
A=January
2=1982
016824=Production Unit No.

But this still leaves me unsure as to what the exact model was. I'm pretty sure it was some variant of the Record, but the Record Sprint would have had a double-chainset and drop handlebars so this is either some kind of more humble variant or there was some after-market modification as it has the single chainring and flat alu bars. It also doesn't help that any model decals there may have been seem to either have been removed or painted over (unless there never were any as it has only the Raleigh branding and some decorative decals).



The existing front chainset appears to be a 46-tooth chainring. Not sure about the BCD (though the measurement between two the outer edge of two adjacent boltholes is ca. 65mm - see image attached). The cranks are marked Thun-geschmiedet 170mm.

The rear derailleur is a Suntour VX which according to info here can take a max of 28 teeth at the back (presumably subject to making the correct adjustments to chain length).




The bike is currently equipped with one Suntour Power shifter lever which is mounted on the stem and the rear derailleur runs above (not below) the BB and a little braze-on cable hanger / runner above the BB.





Once I've established what the original model was, my idea is to try and change the front chainring or entire chainset to something a little easier-geared but period-/model-correct (perhaps a 52/42 170mm Thun-geschmiedet if I can find one though that's not going to make a massive difference relative to the 46). And/or to try and add a lower (28?) cog to the rear (though no idea what kind of rear hub it'd be running and I don't have access to the bike from where I am now...)

Basically I'm looking for whatever would be the simplest option to modify the gearing for hillier riding. If I go to a dual chainring at the front I will also have to purchase a compatible/period front derailleur (Sachs Huret Club II was original spec on Raleigh Record Sprint) and presumably some Suntour Power levers for the downtube, cables and then figure some way of running the front derailleur cable round the BB...

Otherwise, a simpler alternative (but one which might not be so true to the original spec/spirit of the bike) would be to source a smaller front chainring (perhaps even a newly produced compatible single chainring crankset) that could be fitted to the existing crankset and would be compatible with the rest of the drivetrain. Again presumably it'd need to be a cottered crankset (square tapered??) and I need to establish the BCD of the existing crankset to find something compatible.

I realise it might be leaving things a bit late to source parts in time for Sept now but any tips on what might be the best way to proceed and what parts, tools, etc. might be necessary would be very much appreciated (15mm socket wrench for removing the crank?). It's pretty difficult to source parts locally and there are limited tools available where I'll be so I'm trying to plan ahead this time so I can get the work done while I'll be there....

Also sorry for the dirty cassette, derailleur and rims on the photos and the non-original spec tyres (and seats and mudguards...) but the bike is what it is at the moment and some more rough-shod tyres were necessary given the somewhat rough nature of the roads and tracks where the bike now gets whatever rare use it gets these days - usually just once a year when I'm over on holiday to see the family!

Sorry if that's a lot of questions and info to process.... but I haven't done any posts like this before so am kind of thinking out loud...

Thanks in advance for any ID, other info, tips or guidance you can give me!



P.S. Am including a pic of this "Ride the All Steel Raleigh" letter-opener (that's what I'm sure it must be unless anyone else has any better ideas...) which I found in the shed as a bonus/curiosity. Pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with the bike directly and possibly predates it considerably but thought it was nice anyway ;-)

 

[jim haseltine]

Pictured is an Atom/Normandy hub so it'll have a screw-on freewheel or should have - there's always a chance that it's got a Helicomatic but I doubt it. It was not unusual in the shop where I worked for us to customise a standard model to a customer's requirements like change drops to flats, fit a single ring chain set etc. and do a deal on the price. It usually didn't take long for another customer to turn up wanting something that allowed us to use the discarded parts.

 

[non-fixie]

Welcome, @z23 !

With the little time available, my approach for now would be to find a (new) 14-28 freewheel and a nice-looking vintage used compact double, or even triple, chainset. If you prefer new, this is a rather nice classic-looking compact double set, and not too expensive:

Andel 3-pin compact double

The bike looks like it may have had a double originally, so the existing bottom bracket may work. For a triple, you may need a longer spindle.

To remove the current cranks you'll need a crank puller. Not very expensive, and a useful tool to own. To remove the freewheel, you'll need the appropriate freewheel tool. Not very expensive either, but there are many different models, so buying those is only recommended when you're planning to do a lot more wrenching on old bikes. A local, older, bike shop may have the correct tool and remove the freewheel for you.

I would also recommend a new chain (8-speed will do), for which you'll need a chain breaker tool to adjust the length. Also not very expensive and a useful tool to own.

I see you have found Sheldon Brown's site already, which is a very good source of information. For tips on working on old bikes I also find RJ the Bike Guy's YouTube channel useful.

 

[z23]

Thanks @jim haseltine and @non-fixie for your helpful replies!

It was not unusual in the shop where I worked for us to customise a standard model to a customer's requirements like change drops to flats, fit a single ring chain set etc. and do a deal on the price.

I think that's very probably more or less what happened. As I recall, the bike has been in that configuration since he purchased it from Leedhams of Leicester in the early 1980s, as is confirmed by a shop sticker on the frame (bought along with a Raleigh Amber for myself which wasn't necessarily the coolest kid's ride but did sterling (or should I say Sturmey-Archer...) service...!!).

As far as I can make out from Raleigh catalogues from 1981 and 1983 available (unfortunately I can only track down those years online not the UK 1982 catalogue and the 1981 catalogue is only the one for the high-end lightweight bikes and includes the Raleigh Record Ace but not the lower-end spec bikes like I presume this may have been), some of the lower-end bikes came in 10- and 5-speed or 12- and 6-speed versions, where the single-chainring versions it seems would have come factory-fitted with a cottered Thun chainset similar to the one pictured on this bike... But the drop bars could very well have been swapped out for flat bars (or North Road bars as I believe they may have been called...) at the time of purchase....


@non-fixie thanks for the advice on parts and tools.

If you prefer new, this is a rather nice classic-looking compact double set, and not too expensive:

Andel 3-pin compact double

That Andel compact double chainset looks lovely and the compact or super compact would certainly give me the "breathing space" I'd need to not have to break my back trying to grind up the steeper inclines!

It's a little on the pricey side though so, going down the used avenue, I was wondering if something like this Stronglight 48/36t would work? And as a one stop shop from the same seller this SunTour NWN New Winner 6 Speed 14/28t for the freewheel, this Huret Club for the front derailleur and then these Suntour levers for the downtube.

Of course, I wouldn't have a brand new unworn chainset as with the Andel but assuming all those parts would fit (in particular crankset with the BB and and the freewheel to the rear hub) and work together, I'd have a working dual chainring setup for more or less the same outlay. Of course, I'd need to purchase a new chain (I think the original specs would have been Suntour Ultra Narrow or 1/2 x 3/32-Inch so is the latter just standard?) and derailleur cables too. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to change the brake cables too ...but I think I need to take things step-by-step!! For the moment, I seem to have more trouble getting the bike go forward uphill than stopping though obviously the latter is more of a crucial function!!

 

[KermitGKona88]

99% sure that it is a Raleigh Richmond

 

[z23]

99% sure that it is a Raleigh Richmond

Thanks @KermitGKona88. A quick look at some pics of Raleigh Richmonds online makes me think that's pretty spot on.

(And the year would be 1982?? Also any idea where I might find an original catalogue/specs for the Richmond?)

The decals on the downtube and the seat tube match and this one on ebay right now even has the remains of a yellow shop sticker on the seat tube which looks very similar to the shop sticker on the bike I'm looking to rejuvenate.

The model name also rings a bell from the distant past. No Reynolds sticker on the seat tube though but perhaps my Dad just thought it and the Richmond model name wasn't too aesthetic or to his liking so just removed it.

Looking at the prices of Raleigh Richmonds online, it's probably not worth sinking a lot of cash into vintage parts, but if it is in fact a Reynolds 531 frame, it may well be worth investing something in it to keep it going as a bike for occasional holiday use

 

[KermitGKona88]

I have had a look in my catalogues and it isn't in there but they start at 1983. From what I recall yours is pretty spot on spec wise (certainly far closer than the one you linked to). The only thing that has definately been changed is the saddle which would have been a Raleigh copy of an ISCA 407 saddle. How low are you thinking of going on the front ?

 

[z23]

From what I recall yours is pretty spot on spec wise (certainly far closer than the one you linked to).

Yes actually looking at the pics of various Richmonds I could find online quite a few of them seem to have those same flat "North Road" bars with the stem mounted lever and cottered Thun single crankset at the front which on reflection makes me think they must have been some kind of standard spec at some point...

As you say, I certainly don't think those Mavic rims or the crankset on the one I linked to on e-bay would have been original in any case.. Not to mention that saddle!

The only thing that has definately been changed is the saddle

Yes, that's just some horrible new foam thing put on at some point in the name of much-overrated comfort! I'll look up the Isca 407. It might make a nice future addition if I can find one...

How low are you thinking of going on the front ?

Good question really. I basically just want to get something a bit lower than the existing ratios without changing the bike too much or going for anything that'll look too modern/incongruous. I'm not planning on riding it heavily loaded with panniers or anything so just gearing sufficient to give me a bit more of a fighting chance of getting up the steeper hills without having to get off and push really. In particular, the place where the bike now calls home is basically at the top of a road which features a 100m 8% avg. ramp which kicks up to 15 to 20% right after a sharp hairpin bend (so no run up!) before levelling out a bit. With the existing gearing 46 (or 44?) - 23 I can just about get up it but not quite!

So even going to a 52-42 at the front without having to fiddle with changing the freewheel at the rear might make enough of a difference. If something like that Stronglight 48/36 would work with the existing spindle and pedal threads (which it seems should be British 9/16"...) that could be even better!

And throwing a 14-28 freewheel in at the rear would be really cushy if it could be made to work without too many headaches (I ride a 52/36x11-30 on my modern race bike at home, albeit a far lighter beast, and a 52/42 with a period 13-19 Shimano 105 "straight block" on my "town" bike, a 1988 Peugeot Aravis, only one careful owner...)

Is there any particular setup you'd suggest moving towards without shifting too far from the original spec?

 

[KermitGKona88]

14-28 will offer no headaches, those Stronglight 86bcd chainsets have been around since the early 80's I was running a Stronglight 99 is '84. So all is good, my best advice would be to stick a wanted ad up on the forum first before paying Ebay prices, you never know what people have lurking in their sheds on here. The Raleigh all steel letter opener also doubled as a tooth pick for all the happy cyclists to pick the flies out of their teeth... I am of Irish decent so I am good at the old blarney...

 

[z23]

The Raleigh all steel letter opener also doubled as a tooth pick for all the happy cyclists to pick the flies out of their teeth...

.. Good one! Now who'd have thought of that!!

Thanks for advice on the Wanted ad too! I need to familiarise myself a bit more with how things work on here and settle on a more concrete idea of what I actually need. Then I can perhaps put something like that together...