WARRIORS AND WARLORDS Chas Roberts & Keith Bontrager

[mheywoo1]

Re:

Hi Carl,

To paraphrase Dave Brailsford then... aggregation of marginal masses!

The more I read about Roberts the more I think I misunderstood them when new. The mtb press seemed to imply they were inferior to the USA made steel frames, being somewhat twee and out of date. I always assumed they would be a bit heavier as well with all of the fillet brazing but the data appears to tell a different story. I do recall the Fuquay I briefly owned was light though. Did you ever weigh the bare frames? I’ll do this when I’m stripping mine down for re-build. I’m away from my geeky bike parts log book at the mo but from memory my Dekerfs are all around 1850g and the Yo Eddy and Indy Fab Steel Deluxe were a bit lighter still for 18”/medium. I’m expecting the Genesis to be around 2200g

 

[sinnerman]

Re: Re:

Hi Carl,

To paraphrase Dave Brailsford then... aggregation of marginal masses!

The more I read about Roberts the more I think I misunderstood them when new. The mtb press seemed to imply they were inferior to the USA made steel frames, being somewhat twee and out of date. I always assumed they would be a bit heavier as well with all of the fillet brazing but the data appears to tell a different story. I do recall the Fuquay I briefly owned was light though. Did you ever weigh the bare frames? I’ll do this when I’m stripping mine down for re-build. I’m away from my geeky bike parts log book at the mo but from memory my Dekerfs are all around 1850g and the Yo Eddy and Indy Fab Steel Deluxe were a bit lighter still for 18”/medium. I’m expecting the Genesis to be around 2200g

Sure and i think David gave the perfect response too, i certainly dont think there was one single factor, but i do feel in this case, the frame was the biggest factor in this equation.

I have several Roberts and to be fair had a lot more in my years, the WS ultra light weighs less than the DOGS and less than the CR753 for example, but i do only have full bike weights, and the DOGs does have Pace which doesnt help.

To be fair, ive never really read much that implied a Roberts was inferior to US brands in the Press, its kinda hard to imagine so too, given there history, A Roberts Frame builder and designer emigrating and designing and building for TBG, Collaborations such as the Formula projects, Even Keith Bontrager himself working closely, sharing ideas and thoughts.

I think generally there was a definite swing toward heavy marketed brands from the US for sure, and they would have come at a price here in the UK, due to import tax, customs charges, importer margins. Strip this away and you have a handbuilt bike, but, for example a YO Eddy, is not a Custom handbuilt bike, anymore than the Bontrager, its an extremely lush Off the Peg handbuilt bike. Much in the same way as anything else top end.

The Ultralight didnt conform to the same restrictions i guess, hitting a price point.

the variations in tube types and the grade of tubing/weight etc, lightened dropouts etc, the manipulation of the Bottom bracket, the internal reeming of tubes to reduce the overall weight all comes at a cost im sure, and it was clear the extra cost afforded more time. And after speaking to Chas a few times with different builds, the riders weight and use was always a factor, some frames were only intended for racing and a season or two at that, all playing a part in how far you could go.

I was a bit Naive, or at least it was a bit of an unfair comparison for me to make really, whilst the two bikes had a very similar retail price here in the UK, and they were both handbuilt, one was off the peg and was was a Custom Built frame. I guess had i not written the two up together, even i wouldn't have taken it on board.

To be honest, the right comparison would have been a Genesis or a std White Spider, compared to a Fat Chance, Bontrager, Salsa Etc