Please help ID Holdsworth? Claud Butler? Hobbs?

[SullyW5]

Hi All

Picked up this frame covered in several layers of paint and gunk. Having stripped it I am afraid I am little closer to figuring out what it is??

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Sullebhain/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Sullebhain/library/

Hope one of those links works.....newbie finding his way.

Frame is 22 1/2" with OLD of 106mm and front 95mm. Bronze welded (beautifully).

Bastide style twin plate fork crown. Interesting seat cluster.

Seat post looks to be 27.2mm at least

No clear rivet holes for head badge.

Hoping to get the forks off today to check the number but as I hope you can see, there are three sets of figures under the BB.

Anybody have any ideas?......please..........I need to get some sleep

Many Thanks

 

[SullyW5]

Slideshow (I hope)

http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Sullebhain/slideshow/

 

[Spokesmann]

Im no expert but I would suggest thats a CB.

 

[Jonny69]

The fillet brazing narrows it down to just a small number of builders because it was more common to build with lugs, usually hand-cut. I'd say that it's a 'lightweight' rather than a factory built frame, which would be a heavy gauge frame with plain lugs. Those elongated mudguard eyes are quite early - late 30s through the 40s. The fork with the bend down near the bottom is known as a Russ pattern - again, it's a late 30s / 40s part. I don't think it's 30s because it has a roadster style headset, not a head clip

The top left number RH13... could be a postcode (RH13 5BD shows as Horsham) and maybe house 32, but it doesn't show on a search. I think the frame number is the bigger number 2101147 and I'd make a guess that 47 is the year it was made.

 

[SullyW5]

Thanks guys....great to get some input.

A postcode! GENIUS I think the last letter is an O or Q

'47 is the year I was thinking about but does the x on the chainwheel suggest 1935?

I was looking at the Holdsworth La Quelda range but no match so far.

Spokesmann - what is it that leans you toward CB?

Any other thoughts on potential builders?

I think it's worth restoring (your thoughts?) but would hate to mis-badge it.

 

[keithglos]

Re:

Looks like CB, probably 1947. There could be a date code on the Williams crank (Right Hand).

Very much pre war pattern, but bronze welding was popular post war due to shortage of components. Genuine 2 plate crown, but looks original to me.

Keith

 

[SullyW5]

Thanks Keith

That's 2 points for CB

Managed to free the forks this afternoon so can confirm the frame number is 2101147 202 which matches the BB

Bought it from a gent who had stripped it for parts but he thinks the following:

Milremo stem and pedals
Weinmann AG quick release red dot brake levers
Doherty brake calipers
26 x 1 1/4 wheels with ASP rims. Front hub Harden and rear Bayliss

Does that help identify? (assuming any of it was original)

 

[COUPES]

Re:

Check out the 49 Claud Butler catalog on the V-CC library. Fork crowns, seat stay tops and rear dropouts seem to match. Could well be a 47, not sure which model though.

Simon

 

[COUPES]

Re:

Can't see from your pictures but is there any headbadge holes? If so a measurement could help. Can't see as on mobile.

 

[SullyW5]

Thanks Simon......the 49 one is so smudged I can't read it. Looks frustratingly promising though

No rivet holes as far as I can see and no remnants inside the head tube