Wold Ranger
Old School Grand Master
- Feedback
- View
utahdog2003":120kmwcx said:
You obviously just ride gentle trails then! I could kill a Rascal on my local trail in 60 seconds!
What makes a Retrobiker?
- Thread starter ededwards
- Start date
You obviously just ride gentle trails then! I could kill a Rascal on my local trail in 60 seconds!
utahdog2003
Senior Retro Guru
- Feedback
- View
Wold Ranger":3bvuv2k8 said:
Hogwash to that too. If you'd snap the Rascal, you'd snap the Stumpjumper too. Lightweight hardtail to lighweight hardtail, I'd take the classic over the mass produced POS anyday. Style and class with equal functionality will always beat the pants off of me-too styling and copycat hydroformed junk.
I'm not talking suspension here...hardtails. Rascal to Stumpjumper. Dressed equally, I'd prefer the Klein, and it would not slow me down.
What is this 'gentle trails' thing you speak of...don't forget, I'm the EWR freak.
:twisted: I wouldn't take either a Rascal or a Stumpjumper on a trail that I'd hit with the white EWR.
utahdog2003
Senior Retro Guru
- Feedback
- View
I would agree 100% with that.
utahdog2003":1uzwt1j3 said:
LOL, I wonder if Ritchey and Fisher said that about the Stumpjumper back in the early 80's?
(You'll know that the original Stumpjumper (which is widely accepted as the first proper production MTB) was just a copy of the Fisher/Ritchey design. If the first production MTB was just a mass produced copy then I don't think we can really hold that against modern bikes can we?)
Not true anyway, there are plenty of companies out there that are still innovating.
utahdog2003
Senior Retro Guru
- Feedback
- View
Russell":1znchwem said:
Yeah the Stumpy is the king of copies, for sure...I'll give you that. However, the offerings today (in adjusted dollars) in the price class that the Rascal was originally offered in are nowhere near as interesting as the Rascal, at least to me. On XX terrain, I will not admit that I would be slower on a Rascal thatn a Stumpy either.
Russell":1znchwem said:
Suspension, yes. but I firmly believe that a large portion of the advances we are shown in store windows today are more driven by brand promotion that true advancement, and many of those 'advancements' are permeating the industry...unnecessarily I might add. (Hydroformed tubing as an example) I wouldn't call that advancement, just copycat marketing and unnecessary product enhancement to drive sales.
I'm not saying modern bikes are crap, or that all retro bikes are the cats tits. What I am saying, is that in this thread about what constitutes the retrobiker mentality, is to me the choice that the kitted out Rascal (or any of the myriad of well built race-weight hardtails out there, Yo Eddy, Phoenix, Soverign, Blizzard etc) over an off the shelf modern Stumpjumper with black painted components and a slathering of Specialized branded parts from Asia, is a no brainer. Sure the Specialized is a great bike. (I had a 2002 M4) But as a retro-minded guy, I'd chose the Klein. I wouldn't launch the Klein off anything nutty, but then again I'd not do that to a modern hardtail Stumpy either.
The thread was about what makes a Retrobiker, and I think that the number one influence in holding that moniker is the unwillingness to admit, or yield an inch, to the idea that the modern hardtail is that much of a quantum improvement over the quality rigs of the past. On a group ride, I'm showing up on something generally 15 years older than my friends bikes, and I don't typically get left behind. Normally I'm the one with time to drink...
XTSTIMAN
Senior Retro Guru
A retrobiker is all of the above ( especially the part about spending too much on parts over 10 years old) , which you may never us .
I myself like the simpler lines of old MTB's and canti's/v's are ample for my modest risk averse riding
Plus older bikes had lots of silver parts, its all gone dark now, and I would look silly on a moterbike without and engine.
But in the end...........................something on two wheels is always in the back of our minds.
.I myself like the simpler lines of old MTB's and canti's/v's are ample for my modest risk averse riding
Plus older bikes had lots of silver parts, its all gone dark now, and I would look silly on a moterbike without and engine.
But in the end...........................something on two wheels is always in the back of our minds.
Wold Ranger
Old School Grand Master
- Feedback
- View
Hardtails
The UK designed Hardtails whether far Eastern Welded or not- Pace, On-One, Cotic, Dialled Bikes, Curtis, NS from E.Europe and Commencal are way in front of anything from the past, (or currently available) they are very light and extremely strong with superb handling. Incidently the Stumpy has not been available over here as a Hard Tail for some time.
Had Klein been so successful, they would not have had to be baled out by Trek, they were very prone to breaking within a year or two, I broke two and they wouldn't honour their warranty, I had many friends the same, they would only replace the frame at a slightly lowered price, it was a frame a year!
The UK designed Hardtails whether far Eastern Welded or not- Pace, On-One, Cotic, Dialled Bikes, Curtis, NS from E.Europe and Commencal are way in front of anything from the past, (or currently available) they are very light and extremely strong with superb handling. Incidently the Stumpy has not been available over here as a Hard Tail for some time.
Had Klein been so successful, they would not have had to be baled out by Trek, they were very prone to breaking within a year or two, I broke two and they wouldn't honour their warranty, I had many friends the same, they would only replace the frame at a slightly lowered price, it was a frame a year!
Re: Hardtails
Having owned an Inbred and picked up a Cotic (hefted might be a better word) I'd have to say that in my experience they are not very light or even light. The Inbred was certainly strong though, rode well enough and was good value for money. The custom Curtis my mate has is also far from light. Oh, and for what it is worth (not a lot I suspect), the three I have mentioned are in my opinion in no way comparable to the bikes of the past and indeed the On One's build quality (welds, one decal on upside down :shock: ) was not the greatest although acceptable at the price I paid. And, as I think has been mentioned elsewhere, the comparison of many of the high end steel frames from the past with the likes of Cotic, On One etc. really is apples and oranges. This is not to denigrate the brands mentioned, they are all fine enough bikes.
Sorry, not trying to derail this thread further, just thought that I'd offer a counterpoint to the above.
Wold Ranger":2bjiokkm said:
Having owned an Inbred and picked up a Cotic (hefted might be a better word) I'd have to say that in my experience they are not very light or even light. The Inbred was certainly strong though, rode well enough and was good value for money. The custom Curtis my mate has is also far from light. Oh, and for what it is worth (not a lot I suspect), the three I have mentioned are in my opinion in no way comparable to the bikes of the past and indeed the On One's build quality (welds, one decal on upside down :shock: ) was not the greatest although acceptable at the price I paid. And, as I think has been mentioned elsewhere, the comparison of many of the high end steel frames from the past with the likes of Cotic, On One etc. really is apples and oranges. This is not to denigrate the brands mentioned, they are all fine enough bikes.
Sorry, not trying to derail this thread further, just thought that I'd offer a counterpoint to the above.
Neil G
Old School Grand Master
utahdog2003":1wjoa1bx said:Russell":1wjoa1bx said:
Yeah the Stumpy is the king of copies, for sure...I'll give you that. However, the offerings today (in adjusted dollars) in the price class that the Rascal was originally offered in are nowhere near as interesting as the Rascal, at least to me. On XX terrain, I will not admit that I would be slower on a Rascal thatn a Stumpy either.
Russell":1wjoa1bx said:
Suspension, yes. but I firmly believe that a large portion of the advances we are shown in store windows today are more driven by brand promotion that true advancement, and many of those 'advancements' are permeating the industry...unnecessarily I might add. (Hydroformed tubing as an example) I wouldn't call that advancement, just copycat marketing and unnecessary product enhancement to drive sales.
I'm not saying modern bikes are crap, or that all retro bikes are the cats tits. What I am saying, is that in this thread about what constitutes the retrobiker mentality, is to me the choice that the kitted out Rascal (or any of the myriad of well built race-weight hardtails out there, Yo Eddy, Phoenix, Soverign, Blizzard etc) over an off the shelf modern Stumpjumper with black painted components and a slathering of Specialized branded parts from Asia, is a no brainer. Sure the Specialized is a great bike. (I had a 2002 M4) But as a retro-minded guy, I'd chose the Klein. I wouldn't launch the Klein off anything nutty, but then again I'd not do that to a modern hardtail Stumpy either.
The thread was about what makes a Retrobiker, and I think that the number one influence in holding that moniker is the unwillingness to admit, or yield an inch, to the idea that the modern hardtail is that much of a quantum improvement over the quality rigs of the past. On a group ride, I'm showing up on something generally 15 years older than my friends bikes, and I don't typically get left behind. Normally I'm the one with time to drink...
+1
I've ridden a lot of different modern hardtails and the improvements do seem to be mostly in the fork/amount of travel department.
At the end of the day materials still the same...I'm sure my modern Stumpjumper would fold/break before my Hei Hei would.
