I Find It Hard To Understand This. Police Pepper Spraying.

[dbmtb]

There is a lot of oversimplification in this thread, along with a lack of perspective. Protest, and the right to protest, is very much a part, (at least it should be), of the university experience in America. It's an exercising of our constitutional rights. Egypt...OWS, no matter what some might think of it, has heightened an awareness that people, when united can create change or at least have an effect towards change, from the bottom, up.

The police were wrong here, but more wrong were their superiors who gave the okay. Those kids didn't deserve that, but it's a valuable lesson that sometimes there is a cost to standing for what they believe in, and that can many times be lost on kids that have grown up in country where civil liberties are taken for granted. Shame.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... c=fb&cc=fp

Finally, a reasonable posting in this thread.

The rest of you -

Would this have been OK if one of your kids was in that line?
Would you have done the same if there was another option?

All it has done is:
1) Make the police look unprofessional.
2) Given the cause (whether you agree with its validity or not) a symbol and "martyrs" (for want of a less extreme word).
3) Undermine the authorities.

And I am frankly fed up of hearing people saying that they are rich kids and therefore have no right to protest about anything.

Just about any privileges that the working classes were ever granted were only implemented as there were people in the bourgeoisie and ruling classes that also believed it to be right and proper (or in their own interest) to support their cause. Anyone rich who gives away all their wealth so they can be entitled to have an opinion is a fool - as it is their wealth that provides them with the leverage to get anything done in the first place.

Footnote - 2 officers have now been suspended.
http://news.yahoo.com/outrage-over-pepp ... tDvQnY#_=_
So it's not just me then.

 

[technodup]

Would this have been OK if one of your kids was in that line?

If they were my kids pepper spray would be the least of their worries.

And I am frankly fed up of hearing people saying that they are rich kids and therefore have no right to protest about anything.

I don't care if they are rich or not, that's not the point (although the whole anti-capitalist/tax the rich rhetoric wears slightly thin when expensive consumer technology is employed to push the message).

We do have the right to protest, but with that right comes responsibility too. The right to protest does not suggest the right to set up semi-permanent camps wherever you like. The right to protest does not trump the laws of trespass, squatting or planning control which the rest of us adhere to.

I'm speaking primarily with reference to the London lot here. Unfortunately I can see this protest limping on for some time, they appear committed but have no significant support in the country. Plus they don't appear to have any exit strategy or even an idea what constitutes a successful campaign. 'Change' doesn't really cut it.

 

[dbmtb]

I'm speaking primarily with reference to the London lot here.

With respect - that's not what this thread was about.

 

[technodup]

Well they appear to claim solidarity with the other pockets of tramps around the world so it pretty much is. And AFAICS the issues raised and tactics employed are broadly the same so I see no real difference.

But OT I have no problem whatsoever with pepper spray.

"The whole world is watching"? They're really not. Most of the world don't have TV and the rest mostly think you should probably go inside and do something productive.

 

[jonnyboy666]

i don't mind people protesting as such, but know when to leave. the cop was wrong, no doubt there but as soon as he started pointing the spray gun they should have got up to leave and said ok we'll go, they would have made their point by then (whatever point it was, i find students don't always make it clear or actually know or agree!)

i always think the problem with any protest is that the general public, even if they agree with your points lose sympathy with the protesters after a time.

make your point and leave.



and does anyone else think that the cop at about 2.30mins in looked like Chris Farley?

 

[1duck]

California Penal Code Section 12403.7 (a) (
(g) Any person who uses tear gas or tear gas weapons except in self-defense is guilty of a public offense and is punishable byimprisonment in a state prison for 16 months, or two or three years or in a county jail not to exceed one year or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, except that, if the use is against a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, engaged in the performance of his or her official duties and the person committing the offense knows or reasonably should know that the victim is a peace officer, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for 16 months or two or three years or by a fine of one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

apparently

Its not tear gas, nice try though.

 

[1duck]

Finally, a reasonable posting in this thread.

The rest of you -

Would this have been OK if one of your kids was in that line?
Would you have done the same if there was another option?

All it has done is:
1) Make the police look unprofessional.
2) Given the cause (whether you agree with its validity or not) a symbol and "martyrs" (for want of a less extreme word).
3) Undermine the authorities.

And I am frankly fed up of hearing people saying that they are rich kids and therefore have no right to protest about anything.

Just about any privileges that the working classes were ever granted were only implemented as there were people in the bourgeoisie and ruling classes that also believed it to be right and proper (or in their own interest) to support their cause. Anyone rich who gives away all their wealth so they can be entitled to have an opinion is a fool - as it is their wealth that provides them with the leverage to get anything done in the first place.

Footnote - 2 officers have now been suspended.
http://news.yahoo.com/outrage-over-pepp ... tDvQnY#_=_
So it's not just me then.

A) they weren't police
B) my children wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a protest whilst we are living in a democratic country, don't like something? don't vote for them.
C)Suspended not sacked, enough said really! just shows everyone agrees with what they did, but that they have to make it look like they care about the fact some nyaffs got a face full of pepper spray. Suspension is a great way to give a member of staff a holiday as a reward for actions which you agree with but can't be seen to support publicly.

Their wealth gives them limitless options other than street protest, so no i have zero sympathy...they are in a position through their parents/social standing to make a real impact on policy/politics without sitting around like a bunch of dossers 'occupying' places. These kids don't know what they stand for because they don't stand for anything, its laughable.

 

[The Ken]

Their wealth gives them limitless options other than street protest, so no i have zero sympathy...they are in a position through their parents/social standing to make a real impact on policy/politics without sitting around like a bunch of dossers 'occupying' places. These kids don't know what they stand for because they don't stand for anything, its laughable.

What a pile of bollocks, the only way a normal person can influence politics without protesting is a vote nowadays but you only really get one of those every 4 years.
These kids are trying to change things in the only way they know how, and they are doing it peacefully, they should be commended for that, not slagged off for having too much time or money or getting in the way a little bit.

The officer was in the wrong (as were his supervisors) and he should be reprimanded accordingly.

 

[warpedboy2]

"Their wealth gives them limitless options other than street protest, so no i have zero sympathy..."

How do you know they are rich?

Because they are lucky enough to go to university? My sister went to uni, she had to work to get through, as my parnets could'nt afford to support her.

Or maybe it's because they have "the tools that capitalism provided them". What, an i-phone?! I have an i-phone, and i am proper skint. Got it free with my contract.

Get a grip.

 

[GoldenEraMTB]

1duck, let's keep it civil; tone down the name calling and rhetoric, just a bit.

There is no reason, each time a controversial event is discussed in this forum, it has to get out of hand. If you want to truly become a firebrand on this topic, there are many hardcore political forums out there, but prepare to fight. As for here, it's probably not the place.

Don't make me take out my pepper spray.
( I kid; I wouldn't have such an overreaction)