1949 F H GRUBB, D'Avignon
- Thread starter COUPES
- Start date
Apple Tree
GT Fan
Re: 1938 F H GRUB
Lovely originality. Don't even think about restoring it, just keep it as it is and give it an occasional wipe over with an oily rag.
I have FHG No. 1419 which I have also had dated to 1938. It was restored back in the early 1970s and the Resilons replaced by Mafac cantilevers so no where as original as yours but a delightful bike to ride. Looking at the catalogue I think it is the London Streak model. I must get some photos up later.
Lovely originality. Don't even think about restoring it, just keep it as it is and give it an occasional wipe over with an oily rag.
I have FHG No. 1419 which I have also had dated to 1938. It was restored back in the early 1970s and the Resilons replaced by Mafac cantilevers so no where as original as yours but a delightful bike to ride. Looking at the catalogue I think it is the London Streak model. I must get some photos up later.
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Thanks Apple tree. No restoration at all! It certainly is an oily rag but rides so smoothly. I don't actually know the model. Its featherweight and don't think its a path or streak? Would love to see yours. Frame angles and lugs. It has had a Resilion rear brake and I have a Cyclo 3 speed so might change it at a later date.
Simon
Thanks Apple tree. No restoration at all! It certainly is an oily rag but rides so smoothly. I don't actually know the model. Its featherweight and don't think its a path or streak? Would love to see yours. Frame angles and lugs. It has had a Resilion rear brake and I have a Cyclo 3 speed so might change it at a later date.
Simon
Re: 1938 F H GRUB
What a gorgeous bike, Coupes, but is it just the chainring date that leads you to the 1938 date of manufacture?
That could be a red herring, as cyclists would often change the chainring to alter gearing between summer and winter, or for racing and touring. From the frame number it seems more likely to be a post war 1940s Grubb.
Certainly it has the look of a 1930s machine from the frame angles, the D to round fork blades, the rapid taper chain stays, the head clip, Resilion brake and the lug design (Ekla, is it), but these are all features found on 1940s machines too.
But it is the frame number of 2144 that leads me to ask whether the dating is correct. If it is, I would be delighted as I also own a similar era Grubb ( frame number 1910) and that would make mine pre war. However, I think it is more likely to be post war 1940s.
Here is my reasoning. Grubb restarted frame numbering in 1935 and were using three-figure numbers in 1936. If Apple Trees frame number 1419 is 1938, then it seems hard to comprehend how Grubb could have reached 2144 in the same year, bearing in mind that frame numbers were only up to about 2380 in 1949.
Also, it is likely that my lugless frame 1910 is post war, although it is possible that FHG made fillet brazed frames pre war. Certainly nearby Holdsworth were making the lugless La Quelda at that time.
Bit my point is that it doesn't ring true that Grubb would have produced in excess of 700 frames in 1938 but only 250 frames in the following decade, even allowing for no production in the war years.
But perhaps that was indeed the case. Does anyone else have a pre 1952 Grubb with a known date of manufacture, and if so what is the frame number?
Finally, I have to confess a degree of envy for your frame in its original and rather lovely paintwork. Mine is restored and is the same flam red colour, but it just isn't in the same league.
What a gorgeous bike, Coupes, but is it just the chainring date that leads you to the 1938 date of manufacture?
That could be a red herring, as cyclists would often change the chainring to alter gearing between summer and winter, or for racing and touring. From the frame number it seems more likely to be a post war 1940s Grubb.
Certainly it has the look of a 1930s machine from the frame angles, the D to round fork blades, the rapid taper chain stays, the head clip, Resilion brake and the lug design (Ekla, is it), but these are all features found on 1940s machines too.
But it is the frame number of 2144 that leads me to ask whether the dating is correct. If it is, I would be delighted as I also own a similar era Grubb ( frame number 1910) and that would make mine pre war. However, I think it is more likely to be post war 1940s.
Here is my reasoning. Grubb restarted frame numbering in 1935 and were using three-figure numbers in 1936. If Apple Trees frame number 1419 is 1938, then it seems hard to comprehend how Grubb could have reached 2144 in the same year, bearing in mind that frame numbers were only up to about 2380 in 1949.
Also, it is likely that my lugless frame 1910 is post war, although it is possible that FHG made fillet brazed frames pre war. Certainly nearby Holdsworth were making the lugless La Quelda at that time.
Bit my point is that it doesn't ring true that Grubb would have produced in excess of 700 frames in 1938 but only 250 frames in the following decade, even allowing for no production in the war years.
But perhaps that was indeed the case. Does anyone else have a pre 1952 Grubb with a known date of manufacture, and if so what is the frame number?
Finally, I have to confess a degree of envy for your frame in its original and rather lovely paintwork. Mine is restored and is the same flam red colour, but it just isn't in the same league.
Re:
Hi Wheelnut. The previous owner had stated it was 1938. He had history with a family connection. He also said he had sold it and bought it back a few times. Previous owner around Billericay. The chain ring is 1938 and to be honest I haven't seen anything else to compare it to. Could be 40s???
Could be Ekla lugs? Modified? Definitely the fork crown is Ekla.
I have joined the V-CC to see if anyone had an idea of what it was and year but nobody seems contactable also no reply from nkillgrist.
Not sure if the bottom bracket has any numbers on it? Its a Chater Lea bottom bracket but possibly Grubb's own lugged shell.
Any inpout or thoughts are very welcome Wheelnut and would love to see your Grubb.
Just from riding it it feels superb! Have a feeling it was more than a production model. Incredibly light and angles are a joy to ride and with the Middleton handlebars and grips now I don't want to get off it
We will have to have a show us your Old grubbs page on here if not already?
Glad you like the old girl Wheelnut.
Simon
Hi Wheelnut. The previous owner had stated it was 1938. He had history with a family connection. He also said he had sold it and bought it back a few times. Previous owner around Billericay. The chain ring is 1938 and to be honest I haven't seen anything else to compare it to. Could be 40s???
Could be Ekla lugs? Modified? Definitely the fork crown is Ekla.
I have joined the V-CC to see if anyone had an idea of what it was and year but nobody seems contactable also no reply from nkillgrist.
Not sure if the bottom bracket has any numbers on it? Its a Chater Lea bottom bracket but possibly Grubb's own lugged shell.
Any inpout or thoughts are very welcome Wheelnut and would love to see your Grubb.
Just from riding it it feels superb! Have a feeling it was more than a production model. Incredibly light and angles are a joy to ride and with the Middleton handlebars and grips now I don't want to get off it
We will have to have a show us your Old grubbs page on here if not already?
Glad you like the old girl Wheelnut.
Simon
Re: 1938 F H GRUB
Here are some pictures of my Grubb, frame number 1910 and date of manufacture unknown.
It shares similar geometry to your bike and it certainly rides well, with a lively and surprisingly modern ride from the tight and very light fillet brazed frame. If has a very short wheelbase of just 39in with no toe overlap.
Typical Grubb features are the reinforced tabs for the seat and chain stay bridges. The fork crown is quite unusual too, and it carries the frame number on the seat clamp and on the back of the front fork crown.
As bought, it had been refinished but it had lots of modern braze-ons fitted, and with the later type transfers, so I decided to go modern(ish) with the componentry. I think it works quite well and it makes a pleasant change to ride an old bike with gears and brakes that actually work!
Here are some pictures of my Grubb, frame number 1910 and date of manufacture unknown.
It shares similar geometry to your bike and it certainly rides well, with a lively and surprisingly modern ride from the tight and very light fillet brazed frame. If has a very short wheelbase of just 39in with no toe overlap.
Typical Grubb features are the reinforced tabs for the seat and chain stay bridges. The fork crown is quite unusual too, and it carries the frame number on the seat clamp and on the back of the front fork crown.
As bought, it had been refinished but it had lots of modern braze-ons fitted, and with the later type transfers, so I decided to go modern(ish) with the componentry. I think it works quite well and it makes a pleasant change to ride an old bike with gears and brakes that actually work!
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What a wonderful looking Grubb! Similar geometry indeed. Noticed the brake bridge is the same as mine. Love the seat tube detail at the top. Colour is superb! Takes a standard headset so could be late 40s? Wish these old bikes could talk. Must measure mine and let you know.
Have got used to riding with old bits now. Maybe my old car mentality of when is something going to break? parts have lasted and built so well. Really impressed with resilion brakes. Just the one on the Grubb stops well.
Thankyou for the pictures Wheelnut. Got a late 40s F H Grubb frame pics on here that's on the back burner. Think 47-8? Someone had an idea at.
Simon
What a wonderful looking Grubb! Similar geometry indeed. Noticed the brake bridge is the same as mine. Love the seat tube detail at the top. Colour is superb! Takes a standard headset so could be late 40s? Wish these old bikes could talk. Must measure mine and let you know.
Have got used to riding with old bits now. Maybe my old car mentality of when is something going to break?
parts have lasted and built so well. Really impressed with resilion brakes. Just the one on the Grubb stops well. Thankyou for the pictures Wheelnut. Got a late 40s F H Grubb frame pics on here that's on the back burner. Think 47-8? Someone had an idea at.
Simon
