Original Record Derailleur - Reassembly and set up.

[keithglos]

Thats the screw, you probably had it out anyway. This was my era, never had more than 6 speed freewheel.
Probably change better with the wheel well forward.
I used to put the sprung top from the single roller sport gear onto these, and absolutely transformed them, with tension top and bottom like the Simplex.
Easy enough to tap the rivets out, they have bronze bushes in the parallelogram arms, then no more sport gears.
Keith

 

[Midlife]

Front mech likely in the right place

Noisy in the 52 ring usually means it's a bit too far out from the bottom bracket (the chainset) ....I'm sure that Campag realised this and either shortened the BB axle or altered the taper of the cranks so that the chainset was nearer the bottom bracket without telling anybody.....

Pulling the wheel back in the dropouts reduces the chain angle which helps but the main problem is the technology of the day, if you are brave put an axle in the rear dropout and bend it outwards a bit but not in any textbook.

BITD the sounds were pretty awful as the bunch (peloton) passed with grinding and jumping of gears, especially if they were winding up for a sprint of heading for a hill....

Bar end shifters were a bit of a pain because of the cable stretch / length of cable

Persuade the customer to get a Suntour VX rear mech, not a lot of pounds on ebay...

Shaun

 

[Old Ned]

If you think setting up a Record is awkward - try a Gran Sport! There is much more available chain tension in the Record mech over the GS as should be expected as it is a development/improvement (allegedly!). Using a close ratio block with a 52/44 shouldn't be a problem at all. The chain in your photo is much to short, the cage should be at least vertical(ish) in this ratio even on the large sprocket. Move the wheel forward in the dropout, there's plenty of room, it can be positioned right at the front provided the QR 'nuts' are fully located. I used to use GS and Record mechs with close and wide ratio blocks but - and I think this might be important - probably with narrow ratio chainrings as Keith says. It is a 50 years+ ago! I then discovered Simplex Prestige mechs which - in addition to being half the price of Campag - would accept a far wider choice of gear ratios. I remember 52/44 x 14/24 at least being fine. The rest is history as the next Campag mechs I used were Nuovo Record - and then I discovered Suntour etc.

Regarding the holes, use the middle one first to try out the tension and if it's OK then leave it as is. To slack, move to the hole on the left. To tight, move to the right.

 

[Donny Dee]

I just happen to be selling a sweet running entire Suntour VX drivetrain with the lush Powershift levers... See Peugeot PX10 parts in the Components and everything else section.

 

[Midlife]

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=282886

Like this

Shaun

 

[Nob]

chain tension on a rear mech should have the jockey wheels aligned in the 7 o'clock position as a good guide for gear changes.

That chain is awfully short & the poor tension spring on that mech is ready to break :roll:

 

[mattsccm]

Have I missed something?
You shouldn't be worried about what its like running big to big or small to small. Rather extreme cross overs creating a bad chain line.
Some people say that this is rubbish but it was very much the way we did things 30 + years ago. Modern stuff seems more tolerant, I can use all 30 options on my Campag 10 speed, triple set up.
I am damn sure that older kit doesn't work well with extreme cross overs. Wider chains maybe?

 

[Cheesedisease]

So many helpful replies. Feel a duty to attempt to reply to them all...

Thats the screw, you probably had it out anyway. This was my era, never had more than 6 speed freewheel.
Probably change better with the wheel well forward.
I used to put the sprung top from the single roller sport gear onto these, and absolutely transformed them, with tension top and bottom like the Simplex.
Easy enough to tap the rivets out, they have bronze bushes in the parallelogram arms, then no more sport gears.
Keith

Yep. Had that out when I took it all apart and cleaned and regreased. Just wasn't sure which hole to use for the spring on the cage when reassembling. Other than rotating the cage round once to wind the tension, and reinstalling that screw to stop it spinning, that's it isn't it?
And what is it that improves shifting if the wheel is well forward? Position of jockey wheels in relation to cogs?

It's so interesting hearing the ways you tried to make improvements to components at the time. Especially when seeking to create a period build. It can make pedantically searching for the 'right' components seem so silly, mechanically at least! I guess that's not strictly why we do it.

Noisy in the 52 ring usually means it's a bit too far out from the bottom bracket (the chainset) ....I'm sure that Campag realised this and either shortened the BB axle or altered the taper of the cranks so that the chainset was nearer the bottom bracket without telling anybody.....

You're spot on here. I have a later GS axle in there. Very similar measurements, but about 1 maybe 2mm further out on the driveside than ideal. Because the crankset is so old, I was worried the crank arm tapers would be a touch worn and make it sit closer in. Plan is to replace the axle, so hopefully that will also take care of the noise.[/quote]

BITD the sounds were pretty awful as the bunch (peloton) passed with grinding and jumping of gears, especially if they were winding up for a sprint of heading for a hill....

Ha! So maybe it IS shifting perfectly!

Persuade the customer to get a Suntour VX rear mech, not a lot of pounds on ebay...

Customer. Never had one of those... Nor would I trust my (lack of) mechanical skills on such a thing! The bike is actually for my dad, so no payment for my amateur efforts! As for the mech, it came with a lot of original Record, so bar the worn out parts or the incongruously replaced ones, I've been keeping it as it was and in period as much as possible.

If you think setting up a Record is awkward - try a Gran Sport!

Oh dear... The next project was going to be Gran Sport!

Using a close ratio block with a 52/44 shouldn't be a problem at all. The chain in your photo is much to short, the cage should be at least vertical(ish) in this ratio even on the large sprocket.

I lengthened the chain considerably. I foolishly just set the length the way you would for a modern mech, then faced the surprise of how tight it was! Picture attached of how it is now is below. In the large to large combo, the cage is still somewhat forward and not vertical - between 5 and 6 O'clock. Any more links and the chain slops so much on the small to small combo that it hits the front mech cage, and doesn't take up any tension until you shift up a few gears.

Move the wheel forward in the dropout, there's plenty of room, it can be positioned right at the front provided the QR 'nuts' are fully located. I used to use GS and Record mechs with close and wide ratio blocks but - and I think this might be important - probably with narrow ratio chainrings as Keith says. It is a 50 years+ ago! I then discovered Simplex Prestige mechs which - in addition to being half the price of Campag - would accept a far wider choice of gear ratios. I remember 52/44 x 14/24 at least being fine.

Right now it's close to the rear of the dropouts. Had to do so to get fine adjustment to take slack out when on the small ring and get the derailleur to take up a tiny bit of tension. Now it's working fairly okay, I'll move it forwards and see what I'd need to remove in terms of chain links.

Regarding the holes, use the middle one first to try out the tension and if it's OK then leave it as is. To slack, move to the hole on the left. Too tight, move to the right.

Do you mean looking at the mech from the front? If so it, it is currently in the right hand hole. Not sure how to judge if the tension of the mech is too tight or too slack. Wondering if I move it left, would that bring the upper jockey wheel closer to the block. Guess I'll need to experiment.

 

[Cheesedisease]

chain tension on a rear mech should have the jockey wheels aligned in the 7 o'clock position as a good guide for gear changes.
That chain is awfully short & the poor tension spring on that mech is ready to break :roll:

Never a truer word spoken! This is where it's at now in both extremes. Can't quite get your 7 o'clock in the large to large without extreme droop on the small chainring. Getting better though!

 

[Cheesedisease]

Have I missed something?
You shouldn't be worried about what its like running big to big or small to small. Rather extreme cross overs creating a bad chain line.
Some people say that this is rubbish but it was very much the way we did things 30 + years ago. Modern stuff seems more tolerant, I can use all 30 options on my Campag 10 speed, triple set up.
I am damn sure that older kit doesn't work well with extreme cross overs. Wider chains maybe?

No, you're right. Just using the two extremes as a guide for chain length and tension of mech.