Late 40s / Early 50s René Herse tip find

[Jonny69]

I've understood that bolts etc. and compatibility of this old stuff is a nightmare. Dimensions and fixtures are all over the place and evolving.

It’s funny you should say that. I was reading through the earlier posts here and you warned me about early bottom bracket tapers and it suddenly dawned on me I hadn’t checked what taper the Stronglight needed. Cold sweat.

Luckily it’s the same as the RH one, so that’s a relief!



That’s actually all I managed to get done on the RH today, apart from I got a fresh cartridge of grease for the grease gun. My other bike is still in bits so I’d better crack on…

 

[Woz]

That looks a perfect fit!

I was reading a bit on the new owner of the RH brand site, and they stated something interesting. Apparently, very early French (read Stronglight) tapers got copied and actually became the JIS we know today. Campag came later, and developed there own standard which became ISO we know today: obviously driven and popular by the concept of a complete working Gruppo the French never properly got to grips with (ever....).

Your experiments actually confirm this when you bolted and dry tested the Shimano crank, and me for one, I see what you are doing is proof looking at this and a few posts back. First time I see it with real hands on This is why I think this thread is so superb. Really getting dirty and not just showing off a finished RH exotica built, but going through the twists and helping us to understand what mechanically is actually going on.

What I do know for fact, and I think that was what you are referring to, Stronglight went through many transitions legally and of course had to follow fashion. It's amazing that they actually have little idea exactly what there ancestors did, and it is documented elsewhere, they did inbetween tapers of ISO and JIS. I have written to Stronglight and they said they can't really help with the vintage stuff.

For me, this so ironic - the inventors of the square taper, actually got buffeted about, put in corners, adapted, dangling to survive which they are barely doing. Today I think they only do JIS so a full circle.

I could never foresee RH had the means to actually make a crank themselves at this period (no way could a man in a workshop type of thing compete what was happening in the industrial centre of St Etienne with this new material) and like you say yourself they are very similar to the Stronglight. I understood from the French forums that the AL cranks gradually got beefed up with several succent tweaks.

 

[Jonny69]

I could never foresee RH had the means to actually make a crank themselves at this period (no way could a man in a workshop type of thing compete what was happening in the industrial centre of St Etienne with this new material) and like you say yourself they are very similar to the Stronglight. I understood from the French forums that the AL cranks gradually got beefed up with several succent tweaks.

I also don't think they made them themselves because, like you, I don't think they could have had the means to. They're so similar to the early 49D that I would wager they got Stronglight to make them. Size, shape, surface finish and features are near enough identical even down to the size, shape and depth of the scalloping. And there's only about 20g between them.

 

[Jonny69]

Pedals are cleaned out and rebuilt. They will live to see another day. Just need a polish now.

My grease is feeling a bit thick and sticky but then it dawned on me that it’s been in my grease gun for around 20 years so probably no wonder

 

[Woz]

I also don't think they made them themselves because, like you, I don't think they could have had the means to. They're so similar to the early 49D that I would wager they got Stronglight to make them. Size, shape, surface finish and features are near enough identical even down to the size, shape and depth of the scalloping. And there's only about 20g between them.

Good stuff since you have both in your hands. The price difference between the two I would wager astronomical just for the RH logo and machining out 20g more mass from the back invisible side. I doubt the AL was made from a different wonder cocktail at this period.

Myth busting right there, and what this site is about

 

[Woz]

Actually, thinking more, I reckon the BB could be of Stronglight stock too, or at least the result of a collaboration.

It would make perfect sense.

 

[dirttorpedo]

I love these threads and I love vintage French bikes, but you guys have cured me of ever wanting to restore one.

 

[Jonny69]

I love these threads and I love vintage French bikes, but you guys have cured me of ever wanting to restore one.

I didn’t think this had been too bad to be honest!

 

[Jonny69]

Fun and games getting the tape off these bars. I had a bit of garage time today and started rubbing the frame down with foil and WD40. I only took enough foil round to make a light start, so moved onto the bars instead.

There was at least 5 layers of tape. All of them had shellac or rosin on them and a couple of layers had been painted down before the next layer was put on

I started this in the garage but it was just too difficult to get off, so I moved inside where I’ve got a table and sharper tools. We pick up two layers in. Top layer was a kind of old fashioned cotton bandage material, then cloth tape, then this dark blue cloth tape which had been painted silver halfway up:



Bar plugs were cork on both sides:



I just had to cut, hack and peel away at this side. Two more layers underneath the blue layer which resulted in this pile of mess:



On the other side I managed to separate the lower layers, but more importantly I managed to uncover a decent length of the bottom layer to show what could well be the original bar wrap:



It’s now a dark beige/brown, but it could well have been an off-white which has darkened down from the shellac and with time. You can kind of get an idea of the base colour on the back side. It was wrapped from the top of the bars down to the bottom. Stuck down with rosin or shellac because there’s a thick layer left on the bars in places. And I think the thing I found most cool was the little wrap of cotton around the top just to finish it off.

 

[dirttorpedo]

I didn’t think this had been too bad to be honest!

I've followed multiple threads over the years.