Some interesting threads about cantilvers!

[Splatter Paint]

If I'm reading this right, a v-brake lever has a leverage ratio of 1:3 and pulls more cable than a canti lever, which as a higher leverage ratio of about 1:5?

So to fit a v-brake lever to a canti or u-brake I'd have to lower the straddle cable hanger, which would give more leverage? If I ran the pads about 2mm from the rim then the brake should actuate like normal.... :?
Cheers.

SP

 

[FluffyChicken]

If I'm reading this right, a v-brake lever has a leverage ratio of 1:3 and pulls more cable than a canti lever, which as a higher leverage ratio of about 1:5?

So to fit a v-brake lever to a canti or u-brake I'd have to lower the straddle cable hanger, which would give more leverage? If I ran the pads about 2mm from the rim then the brake should actuate like normal.... :?
Cheers.

SP

As I know your quest...
I remember some people mentioning that there are levers out there capable of being adjusted for V-style or traditional canti's . I suggest you find out what these are and use them to keep them looking the same.

 

[Farmfield]

# Lots more power!
In a traditional cantilever design the brake loses power as the saddle (or yoke) raises upwards because the angle of the straddle changes. So, the more you apply the brake, the more your mechanical advantage is diminished. The Big Squeeze™ eliminates this problem by pulling from the bottom of the brake arm.

So the trick adjusting the brakes for a correct angle when (almost) fully applied wouldn't defeat that theory?

A properly set up cantilever brake with good pads will easily lock the wheel. Better braking than that require ABS, hehe...

Well, there's also the fact that locking isn't the best way to brake, hehe, but I'll just disregard that totally... xD

I remember some people mentioning that there are levers out there capable of being adjusted for V-style or traditional canti's .

I've actually only seen that on LX brakes, but I now know that at least XT had those too... The reason that I've seen several of those LX-ones are as they kept that feature well into the late nineties, maybe even into the 2000's... Anyone know why? Cyclocross perhaps? Did Shimano actually offer LX-canti's later than XT did?

 

[FluffyChicken]

# Lots more power!
In a traditional cantilever design the brake loses power as the saddle (or yoke) raises upwards because the angle of the straddle changes. So, the more you apply the brake, the more your mechanical advantage is diminished. The Big Squeeze™ eliminates this problem by pulling from the bottom of the brake arm.

So the trick adjusting the brakes for a correct angle when (almost) fully applied wouldn't defeat that theory?

A properly set up cantilever brake with good pads will easily lock the wheel. Better braking than that require ABS, hehe...

Well, there's also the fact that locking isn't the best way to brake, hehe, but I'll just disregard that totally... xD

That's why you feather the brakes. You do the ABS.

 

[dyna-ti]

I think it was more developments that were happening as ways of improving a not so good brake,different pads ,different angles.replacing stretchy wires with solid rods.
But im sure the people that design brakes as a job, came to the natural conclusion that straightening the arms to give absolutely maximum leverage was the answer.
If they werent so cheap at trying to stretch out the technology there wouldnt have been any V's and we'd have gone straight to disc.

there was this thread[ http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... hlight=vid ] on an old MBT race[proper organised affair]i imagine the brakes were set up as properly as properly gets.Stopping at speed on downhill sections seems to be hit or miss or rather miss and hit-miss the turn and hit the ground

The link has expired unfortunately ,it was so funny

 

[PurpleFrog]

More cantilever fascination:

Cantilever set up and maintenance, courtesy of DrystonePaul

http://www.drystonepaul.com/maintenance ... r_1993.jpg

http://www.drystonepaul.com/maintenance ... r_1995.jpg

Discussion of the importance of brake rigidity between Jobst Brandt (famous expert on bike technology and ex-Porsche brake engineer - plus he's German!) and some other guy:

http://yarchive.net/bike/brake_rigidity.html

Brandt details the failings of conventional cantis and Vs when really precise but drastic control is needed - "cosine error" as pads wear. A must-read for anal retentives and obsessives especially! And possibly a boost for disc supremacists -

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicy ... 808d?pli=1

A real winner - an online museum of weird brakes - this is so good! here:

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obscura/mtb.html

A quote from Keith Bontrager's famous article on cantilever adjustment, which now seems to be unavailable:

The set up basics for any cantilever brake system:

* Spread the arms at the top. Extend the pads out of the arms to do
this. It seems weird, but it's important. Don't get carried away and
extend them out so far that they are not held properly. Make sure they
are held very tight when you are done with toe in adjustments.

* Bring the straddle carrier down as low as you can. If you don't
know how close you can get to the tire, adjust the lowest point of the
straddle carrier even with the underside of the fork brace. This is a
clearance you use all the time and is a good landmark to shoot for.

* Adjust the pads first, then the carrier, them pull the straddle
cable across and make the final cable adjustments.

 

[PurpleFrog]

Article by UtahDog on the design of the Dual Eez Cable Hanger; some terrific insights on brake design and effectiveness here:

http://utahdoglives.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... art-1.html

 

[DeeEight]

I know this is reviving a 2.5 year old thread but I found it by accident while trying to find something i wrote on the usenet forums 16 years ago... and found someone had quoted my entire brake FAQ without actually credited my website...

so, that FAQ on page 1 in the third or fourth post, that was me.

 

[Neil]

I know this is reviving a 2.5 year old thread but I found it by accident while trying to find something i wrote on the usenet forums 16 years ago... and found someone had quoted my entire brake FAQ without actually credited my website...

so, that FAQ on page 1 in the third or fourth post, that was me.

Is it a quote of a usenet post, though, or a quote from your website?

If the former - surely it's fair game?

 

[Rio]

an old thread, but interesting stuff!!