Pistonhead's Lewis Hamilton Photoshop Thread
- Thread starter Dr S
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OK, remind me of the 2011 championship standings - or even their performances over the year?highlandsflyer":144fdsem said:
I'd agree that Hamilton is the outright faster driver, most of the time - he certainly has the pace.
I'm no Button fan, but he's most certainly held his own at McLaren - and that's suprised me, I expected Hamilton to comprehensively beat Button, but he hasn't done.
Whilst Button may not have all of Hamilton's outright natural ability, he's a much smarter driver. I've said this before, when I'm watching Hamilton, all I'm really waiting for, these days, is who he's going to crash with, or when he'll have wrecked his tyres.
And I know it's a trite, cliched argument about Button's driving style, and being able to look after his tyres, but, dammit, he's got pace, can be fast enough when he needs, knows how to race people, and most importantly, these days, knows how to match pace and effort with tyre wear.
All of that written about somebody who I'm far from being a true fan, but he's suprised me in the last couple of years. He's no 2nd coming, and I'll readily accept, other drivers show flashes of brilliance that I don't truly see in Button - but all the same, he's very, very good, and over the past year or so, far from being in Hamilton's shadow, performance wise anyways, at McLaren.
I've always thought of Button and Hamilton as F1s Burns and McRae. Colin had more natural ability, flair and outright raw talent, but threw away too many results. Burns was the more intellegent driver- smooth, measured and calculating. Didn't have the outright pace but got the results when it mattered.
By the way, I'm talking driving styles here. Jenson seams like a genuinely nice guy, as was Richard. I'm not comparing Hamilton to Colin as a man, Colin was a great guy who I dearly miss, whereas Lewis comes across as a complete knobend.
By the way, I'm talking driving styles here. Jenson seams like a genuinely nice guy, as was Richard. I'm not comparing Hamilton to Colin as a man, Colin was a great guy who I dearly miss, whereas Lewis comes across as a complete knobend.
Well there is that! I remember saying it in another thread, he comes across as somebody who's a total tool struggling to emerge from a facade and veneer of trying to come across nice guy.Dr S":2gcyjgrw said:
Thing is, I'm not personally a hater of Hamilton, I just think over the last couple of years, he's disappointed, really. True, there have been some brilliant performances, but consistency and lack of impulse control, to say nothing of seemingly deteriorating race craft.
Like Button, Hamilton's first few years of F1 seem to be showing signs of the celebrity, lavish lifestyle, and fame taking their toll on Hamilton - but dammit, he's supposedly been groomed for years for this, and must have plenty of professional support for guidance, if not ignored.
Half the time when I'm hearing him talk, I get the impression he just wants to be some mega famous, mega adored, mega blinged guy, where really, he should be keeping his head down, staying focused and learning from all the drivers that have gone before him on that score. There's been times this year when I've thought he was heading for a breakdown.
Now everybody can have problems, issues, relationship troubles, whatever... but he's been groomed for this sort of competition for years, he's not shy on ability, I suspect he could get all the help he needs, he just needs to get focused.
I would say what he needs is a very lean, humbling few years (like Button had) with some mid field teams, to learn some humility, and how to race with his brain and learn how to deal with, and perform best when he's not about to win the race. But on this years (and the last couple, really) I wonder whether he'd have the mettle for it without self-destructing or needing a stay in the Priory.
Shame, really, I used to find Button irritating in his first few years in F1, for seemingly being more about the playboy lifestyle, than trying to make good in F1. In fairness, though, over time, Button has put that right and seems to have learnt to focus on what matters.
Hamilton, with all the planning, seems to have shown no self-realisation where that's concerned, and determined to repeat the folly of those that have gone before him. In the words of one of his celeb friends, he just needs to shut-up and drive.
Dr S":1azvb13j said:
From someone who actually races endurance (it may not be F1 but takes a lot of skill and practice to do well, ask Guy Martin, but the principles are the same) I would agree with this, he may have bigger balls (not to be confused with talent) but to win you have to finish and Button is a controlled driver with good pace. We see this quite a bit with new drivers coming into our sport, some have big balls but they rarely win big races as they take too many risks and invariably crash or break the machine.
Hamilton need to grow up and mature as a driver otherwise he will just be another also ran playboy making excuses to the press every other week.
Carl.
I don't think Hamilton is a faster driver than Button, Button is the faster driver and has shown that time after time.
Where Hamilton has the edge is when the car isn't under him properly. He copes much better than Button in those circumstances and has the ability to drag the car around by the scruff of it's neck, often getting more pace out of a car that really isn't set up correctly.
Button, on the other hand, has the edge in pace when the car is right. He's able to drive the car faster and more consistently than Hamilton in those circumstances. He's much better at finding the edge of the available grip without quite exceeding it whereas Hamilton pushes beyond the grip making him faster in small bursts but overall slower. This does give Hamilton a spectacular, if not sustainable, driving style.
Hamilton has 2 major failings:
1) He can't make his own decisions in the car, time after time he relies far too much on the pit wall.
2) He has problems overtaking, he seems unable to analyse the driver in front and he's way too predictable making it too easy for cars in front of him to stop him passing. When he does get balked he has a habit of making unrealistic lunges to get past and far too often this ends in contact. Sometimes you get the feeling he makes his overtaking moves out of desperation rather than calculation.
Hamilton learnt a lot in 2011 though as a result of being teamed with a better all round driver. I would say he's finally learning that being consistent is as important as being fast. All he needs to do now is leave his personal life in a box somewhere and concentrate on racing - oh, and stop doing dodgy publicity shoots !
Where Hamilton has the edge is when the car isn't under him properly. He copes much better than Button in those circumstances and has the ability to drag the car around by the scruff of it's neck, often getting more pace out of a car that really isn't set up correctly.
Button, on the other hand, has the edge in pace when the car is right. He's able to drive the car faster and more consistently than Hamilton in those circumstances. He's much better at finding the edge of the available grip without quite exceeding it whereas Hamilton pushes beyond the grip making him faster in small bursts but overall slower. This does give Hamilton a spectacular, if not sustainable, driving style.
Hamilton has 2 major failings:
1) He can't make his own decisions in the car, time after time he relies far too much on the pit wall.
2) He has problems overtaking, he seems unable to analyse the driver in front and he's way too predictable making it too easy for cars in front of him to stop him passing. When he does get balked he has a habit of making unrealistic lunges to get past and far too often this ends in contact. Sometimes you get the feeling he makes his overtaking moves out of desperation rather than calculation.
Hamilton learnt a lot in 2011 though as a result of being teamed with a better all round driver. I would say he's finally learning that being consistent is as important as being fast. All he needs to do now is leave his personal life in a box somewhere and concentrate on racing - oh, and stop doing dodgy publicity shoots !
I'm not buying that, entirely - although there's something to it, and the ability to get the most out of a car that's far from ideal, is still very key. Damon Hill was very fast with a well setup car - of his time, not sure anybody was that much faster. The problem being that people like Schumacher could probably be as fast when things were ideal, but more likely to be faster when the car / setup wasn't as good.davew":1fevn04w said:
I'm not one to come to the defence of Hamilton, but on outright pace - say qualifying, or the fastest lap, Hamilton tends to have it.
All other things being equal, and them both finding a good setup, I'd normally expect Hamilton to qualify better. I don't just think it's a coping with an un-ideal car that Hamilton does better - I think he does have more potential outright pace than Button.
On the other points, I'd largely agree, in many instances, in modern F1 (outside of qualifying) pure outright pace isn't the best / fastest way of running the race - which I think where Button has it. He's a more intelligent driver than Hamilton, he is often faster over a race distance than Hamilton, in fact he often races better in terms of wheel-to-wheel and overtaking.
And races matter, and how to drive the race is more important than brief flashes of brilliance. But that's the thing - I think an inherently fast driver like Hamilton can learn to be more intelligent with his driving - but I just think he (and others like him) have a half gear extra, in terms of pure, unfettered speed / performance that some drivers don't quite have.
Were it a pole position shoot-out, with everybody relatively happy with their cars, it'd be people like Vettel and Hamilton I'd be expecting to eek those last bits of performance over a lap.
Hamilton can do that - he can banzai laps and has got some pole positions that weren't really on. Montoya had that ability, too - didn't he get something like 10 pole positions, one year, in the Williams / BMW?
It's funny the amount of parrot fashion repetition from the media that goes on in forumworld.... Jenson tyre management this, Lewis fast but knobhead celebrity wannabe that... everyone thinks they are an expert, when in fact, none of us really have the slightest clue what goes on behind closed doors, in the cockpit or at home, so to class someone a knobhead based on his media portrayal, is a tad harsh (note, I am not going to get drawn into a discussion about details about this)
The point is, BOTH Lewis and Jenson are fantastic drivers, each with their own talents in different aspects of racing. They are both excellent but different, and they are both great representatives of the UK in this global sport. I just hope that BOTH of them have a better season than the previous
G
The point is, BOTH Lewis and Jenson are fantastic drivers, each with their own talents in different aspects of racing. They are both excellent but different, and they are both great representatives of the UK in this global sport. I just hope that BOTH of them have a better season than the previous
G
No it's not - (a tad harsh).unkleGsif":3c284ae3 said:
Whilst he may have very little control of what the media say about him, he has all the control in the world about what he does / says when he is in the public view.
As to armchair experts - well of course there's always that factor. However, many people will have been watching motorsport for decades (not just this brief period) and have seen drivers come and go, have watched with their own eyes how drivers perform, where they do well, where they don't, and can also read / listen / observe informed commment.
The irony? Your sweeping generalisations of commentary here, is just as bad as the criticism you make of it by people here, on drivers like Button and Hamilton.
I'm just saying...
Neil":co07rbpy said:
apart from the one incident in monaco, give me one good example of anything he has said that portrays him as being a knobhead
What sweeping generalisations have I made?
I made no judgements. I cast no aspertions (unlike some). I insulted nobody. I have made none
I merely commented that there is more to people than what we see or hear. We are not close freinds of theirs, or family, so do not get to see the real picture
SHITE, I said I wont be drawn into this... if anyone thinks anyone else out there in the world is a knobhead or whatever, then fine. People have their opinions, I have mine
G
