New Orange P7 vs.Orange R8

[American Friend]

I've always fancied one of them Orange P7s, but that R8 looks pretty cool. I see the obvious differences in the specs, like the P7 has a 130mm fork and the R8 100mm, and the 631 vs 853, but not sure what this really means in riding/handling terms. Anyone care to make some informed guesses comparing the two?

 

[ferrit]

Yeah its easy, the R8 (853) is designed as an lightweight XC bike.

The P7 (653) is a longer travel "hardcore" hardtail, its a heaftier beast with gussets to the headtube

 

[Neil G]

As above

TBH I'd have the R8 for the superior tubing and better dropouts

P7 can be run with 100mm but does have a slacker head angle so will be better downhill than the R8

 

[American Friend]

Cheers for that. Still not sure about a few things, though.

I thought 853 meant you could make a lighter but stronger frame. You seem to be saying the 631 P7 can take more abuse. Is that really true or is it just the headtube gussets that make you think that? It's curious the R8 doesn't have them.

Besides the long/short travel fork business, I see there's a difference in head tube angles, I suppose to compensate for the difference in fork travel. How does this translate into handling? For somebody riding the usual mix of trails, bridleways, and the inevitable stretch of tarmac, which is better and why?

Edit: :idea: Gussets & long travel fork: right, must mean bring on the abuse.

Edit II: :idea: Wouldn't a P7 with the R8's rear dropouts be sweet?

 

[ferrit]

Sort of right re the 853, as the tubing is effectively stronger a lighter frame can be built by using slimmer tubesets. So if Orange built the P7 in 853 but with the same tube thicknesses as the 631 it would be a real beast and probably a bit of overkill. The gussets are only there in relation to the long travel forks. I think some manufacturers have managed to fit longer travel forks without gussets but cannot remeber who, it might be the Cotic bFE.

Whats wrong witht eh swapouts on the P7, makes for a versatile frame

 

[American Friend]

Nothing wrong with versatility, but bolted on sliding rear dropouts is a dumb design. I believe they changed the original in an attempt to address a complaint from owners about the dropouts loosening. Even if the revised design fixed that issue you really don't want some crucial bolts that low to the ground, where they're going to be constantly exposed to water and grit and salt and eventually will have to be drilled out.

 

[Neil G]

The R8 does have a downtube gusset to pass the crash regs tests etc but is built with XC in mind. The Cotic soul can apprently handle a 120mm for k and does look very tidy.

The dropouts on the P7 are fugly, sorry but it's one of the things that put me off that frame.

 

[American Friend]

Cotics always crop up in these sorts of discussions. Nice concept but it's not an Orange if you see what I mean.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Look your a bridleway sunday rider and the R8 will be more overkill than you need.
So go buy one


Of course it's modern, so scrap that and go buy an old top quality steel frame for a lot less

 

[American Friend]

Look an Aston Martin V12 would be more overkill than I need, but I'd buy one.