Bloody cheek!
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MikeD":23vcbq9v said:Businesses don't usually strike because they do not have effective Unions to do all the work for them.
I'm not sure what point you're making here. Industrial action is hardly unique to the public sector, and there are plenty of active trade unions representing private sector workers.
(I don't get holiday pay, sick pay, overtime, healthcare or anything and my pension is lousy. Being self-employed, though, I don't think striking is the way forward for me)
My point is that the reason conditions in the private section are so bad is that no one stood up to defend them. People that give away their conditions should not get so upset at those that choose to defend them.
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Neil G":tk9qhkv0 said:
That's exactly what me and a lot of my work mates are thinking with ours due to the fact the proposed changes are just the start. If we give in now my pension will be worth bugger all by the time I get to retire so the £250/300 I pay a month could be put to better use.
If only a small percentage of the public service workers do this the ps pension will be in far worse trouble then it is now.
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brocklanders023":d5wpwydb said:
Personally I think it would be silly to give up the pension. I think it's only fair that if people are projected to live longer then more money should be paid into the pot to provide for that. The £250/300 a month is still more than doubled after the state pays their contribution, so for me to be anywhere near that pension I would need to put in £700 a month and I don't know how that would work with tax and percentage of income paid into a pension.
I think traditionally public sector workers were offered very good pensions because the pay was significantly less than private sector euivilants, that gap has closed and in some cases gone the other way in the last decade or so.
By all means let them fight to keep what they have, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
It upsets me to see ordinary private sector people struggling on very low wages and with no chance of their own pension fund having some of their taxes going to these more than generous public sector pension funds, and these public sector people are asked to pay more into the fund as everyone is going to live longer than we all thought to strike about it before any real negotiating, so the rest of the private sector will have to cover the shortfall and with even less chance of their own fund.
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As I've mentioned before the Government have made it clear that the changes that will make the real difference are not up for negotiation. They will not back down as the % increase has nothing to do with paying for the pensions, it's simply a way of making money. There's only so much money people will allow to be squeezed out of them to pay for the failings of the banks and the Tories bogus claims that the country is about to go under.
From what I understand the teachers pension scheme is in good health and after the changes a few years back is projected to become less of a drain. My scheme would be healthy if those in charge had not spent all the money we pay in. Do you think it's fair that they spent our money, money that was paid in to support the pension, but now expect us to take the hit?
My service has done it's bit over the last 8 years with cut after cut, acceptance of worse conditions, reduced numbers, changes to the pension, no pay increase for years with no prospect of one anytime soon etc etc. There comes a point where enough is enough and that has been reached.
From what I understand the teachers pension scheme is in good health and after the changes a few years back is projected to become less of a drain. My scheme would be healthy if those in charge had not spent all the money we pay in. Do you think it's fair that they spent our money, money that was paid in to support the pension, but now expect us to take the hit?
My service has done it's bit over the last 8 years with cut after cut, acceptance of worse conditions, reduced numbers, changes to the pension, no pay increase for years with no prospect of one anytime soon etc etc. There comes a point where enough is enough and that has been reached.
Absolutely. If you put your monthly contributions into a private pension plan...Neil G":2suwi9bt said:
a) The fund managers help themselves to a big slice of it to pay their fees. The BBC uncovered a HSBC pension scheme where, of the £120,000 that you put into it, the managers "are estimated to take fees totalling £99,900".
http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org. ... ds-on-fees
Here's another link with more detailed numbers: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8276369.stm
b) You sit and hope that the stock market returns 8% per year on what's left, every year until you retire in a few decades time -- which never happens. 8% is a high return to consistently deliver and the occasional stock market crash can devalue your pension fund by up to 50%.
c) The chancellor eyes up your pot and tries to find a way of siphoning off as much as he can get away with.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 596955.ece
d) If your company goes into administration and the company pension fund is wound up, you lose everything (Just ask the poor buggers who worked for Allied Steel & Wire in Cardiff).
So yeah. I think the lesson is not to give your pension contribs to anyone else to look after because they'll be ransacked.
I hear that Australian government bonds are returning over 5% at the moment...
suburbanreuben
Old School Grand Master
brocklanders023":2v8jbo9u said:
I don't think anyone is claiming anything else. This "strike" was an ineffectual tiddler that has only raised the bullshit levels on both sides.
A good week or two, manning the brassiers at the school gates/picket line should do the trick, though I doubt there'd be enough support from within, let alone without.
Best get it done sharpish, before Interest rates rise...
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Sure I understand your grievances.
I'm not totally familiar with all the pension schemes but aren't they essentially investments with different levels of risk depending on what is agreed? There is an inherent rist involved with all investments, the cash just doesn't sit it a pot waiting to be used, it's invested so that it can grow. After the global financial crash a lot of these funds were devistated yes, but they'll bounce back.
Our level of debt is not hype, how can we carry on paying more on the interest of the debt, that's just the interest on the total uk debt, than the whole of the education budget?
The debt is a problem, and the longer we take to pay it off the more is wasted on interest payments and not getting the balance down, that is a total waste and needs to be brought under control.
I'm not totally familiar with all the pension schemes but aren't they essentially investments with different levels of risk depending on what is agreed? There is an inherent rist involved with all investments, the cash just doesn't sit it a pot waiting to be used, it's invested so that it can grow. After the global financial crash a lot of these funds were devistated yes, but they'll bounce back.
Our level of debt is not hype, how can we carry on paying more on the interest of the debt, that's just the interest on the total uk debt, than the whole of the education budget?
The debt is a problem, and the longer we take to pay it off the more is wasted on interest payments and not getting the balance down, that is a total waste and needs to be brought under control.
suburbanreuben
Old School Grand Master
Deluded bullshit!brocklanders023":29s4iz25 said:MikeD":29s4iz25 said:Businesses don't usually strike because they do not have effective Unions to do all the work for them.
I'm not sure what point you're making here. Industrial action is hardly unique to the public sector, and there are plenty of active trade unions representing private sector workers.
(I don't get holiday pay, sick pay, overtime, healthcare or anything and my pension is lousy. Being self-employed, though, I don't think striking is the way forward for me
My point is that the reason conditions in the private section are so bad is that no one stood up to defend them. People that give away their conditions should not get so upset at those that choose to defend them.
Conditions in the private sector are getting worse because if you aint prepared to work for £X an hour with no pension, there is someone overseas who will gladly do it for a tenth of £X.
The world is catching up with us, and we have to accept that we, all of us, are going to be a lot poorer because of foreign competition.
At thye moment, many foreign workers are happy to work just to survive.
If they follow the western model, eventually they will be unionised and living standards willl rise to our level and possibly beyond.
Now though, they aren't worried about pensions because no one expects to live that long.
Our cosy little world is falling apart, and no-one is immune from the effects.
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Easy_Rider":1zlo7v79 said:
From what I understand the teachers pension does just that, it's put in a pot to pay for those that retire.
The money from my pension was not invested or put in a pot... It was spent. For the first 30 years of the scheme everyone paid in and very few retired. For around the next 15 years there was more going in then going out. If this money had not been spent the scheme would have been very healthy. It's ok though, we'll just increase our contributions so the Government can have even more money to waste. :evil:
