Bloody cheek!

[Neil G]

Well I'm thinking about not even having one at all...be better off investing elsewhere for a better return!

That's exactly what me and a lot of my work mates are thinking with ours due to the fact the proposed changes are just the start. If we give in now my pension will be worth bugger all by the time I get to retire so the £250/300 I pay a month could be put to better use.

If only a small percentage of the public service workers do this the ps pension will be in far worse trouble then it is now.

Personally I think it would be silly to give up the pension. I think it's only fair that if people are projected to live longer then more money should be paid into the pot to provide for that. The £250/300 a month is still more than doubled after the state pays their contribution, so for me to be anywhere near that pension I would need to put in £700 a month and I don't know how that would work with tax and percentage of income paid into a pension.
I think traditionally public sector workers were offered very good pensions because the pay was significantly less than private sector euivilants, that gap has closed and in some cases gone the other way in the last decade or so.
By all means let them fight to keep what they have, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
It upsets me to see ordinary private sector people struggling on very low wages and with no chance of their own pension fund having some of their taxes going to these more than generous public sector pension funds, and these public sector people are asked to pay more into the fund as everyone is going to live longer than we all thought to strike about it before any real negotiating, so the rest of the private sector will have to cover the shortfall and with even less chance of their own fund.

Agree

I can barely afford £50 a month let alone hundreds. F**ked by inflation and paying the price for the a**holes that went rampant borrowing in the 'good times'.

Preference shares are where it's at for a nice inflation beating 8/9 percent return

 

[jamabikes]

i earn less per month now than i did when i was 18. go figure. i also now have a wife (well soon to be) and two kids. i struggle to plan for tomorrow money wise, let alone 40 years time. i am just hoping that a lot can happen in 40 years, well a shed load has happened in the 30 so far, an either some one will sort it all out, or i'll finally get a well paid job.

my dads in the private sector, he has been paying into his personal pension for the past 40 years and has seen his pension half, then half again in the last 8 years. he had planned to retire two years ago but is now having to work for at least another 5 to pay back the short fall.

 

[JohnH]

The graph you show is for the public sector, not just the teachers. On Newsnight the other day a graph for the teachers showed the burden will go down. All sides agreed this point.

Apologies BL, you're right -- you did specify that you were talking about teachers in particular. Overall though, the OBR has said that the amount that the taxpayer hands over each year to cover the public sector pension deficit will double during the lifetime of this parliament.

What I mean by 'spent all the money' is that they've spent all the money. Councils were allowed to spend the money generated by the Fire Service pension. This is a fact.

If what you're saying is true BL, it's a bloody disgrace.

...there's certainly a view that what Hutton says is that public sector pensions should be reformed - because, in effect, they're not fair, but also, looking at the devil of the detail, that they actually are affordable in the long term.

Neil, the strange thing is that there are other European countries who have a large public sector, whose employees pay into a pension scheme, and the whole thing works like clockwork. Their public sector pension system is affordable -- so we know it can be done.

Which makes you wonder just what the hell we've been doing in this country to end up with the bloody mess that we now have. :roll:

 

[suburbanreuben]

The graph you show is for the public sector, not just the teachers. On Newsnight the other day a graph for the teachers showed the burden will go down. All sides agreed this point.

Apologies BL, you're right -- you did specify that you were talking about teachers in particular. Overall though, the OBR has said that the amount that the taxpayer hands over each year to cover the public sector pension deficit will double during the lifetime of this parliament.

What I mean by 'spent all the money' is that they've spent all the money. Councils were allowed to spend the money generated by the Fire Service pension. This is a fact.

If what you're saying is true BL, it's a bloody disgrace.

...there's certainly a view that what Hutton says is that public sector pensions should be reformed - because, in effect, they're not fair, but also, looking at the devil of the detail, that they actually are affordable in the long term.

Neil, the strange thing is that there are other European countries who have a large public sector, whose employees pay into a pension scheme, and the whole thing works like clockwork. Their public sector pension system is affordable -- so we know it can be done.

Which makes you wonder just what the hell we've been doing in this country to end up with the bloody mess that we now have. :roll:

Which countries are these then?

 

[brocklanders023]

What I mean by 'spent all the money' is that they've spent all the money. Councils were allowed to spend the money generated by the Fire Service pension. This is a fact.

If what you're saying is true BL, it's a bloody disgrace.

:[/quote]



It is a bloody disgrace John, that's why we will not let the Government rob our pension without a fight. I can honestly say that the pension robbery is the only issue that will make Fire Fighters walk out the doors. We can't afford to do it but we can't afford not to either.

 

[suburbanreuben]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't you walk out, last year, about shorter night shifts/longer days? Or was that just London?

 

[brocklanders023]

That was just London sub

 

[Easy_Rider]

Don't read this if you are easily offended, as some of you know the Daily Mash style...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 106304015/

A guide to strike etiquette
30-06-11

AS the country's public servants once again challenge Britain to notice the difference, experts have issued an essential guide to national strike etiquette.


Do try not to spray tea directly into their face
Professor Henry Brubaker, of the Institute for Studies, said: "Too many people in Britain have forgotten the importance of good manners during an angry strike. This simple guide should ensure that the strikers' absurd demands are politely ignored without it descending into a foul-mouthed brouhaha."

National strike dos and don'ts:

When crossing a picket line do so with poise and grace. Imagine one is trying to balance a badly educated child on one's head.

However, it is important to remember you are now in the striker's place of entitlement. The striker is your host and you should treat them with respect. Do not put your feet up on the seats they put their feet up on.

If one finds oneself eating lunch in the same restaurant as a striker, always use a dessert fork to stab them in the face when when they start helping themselves to a third of your soup.

Never be arrogant or condescending - particularly when pointing out the horrendous spelling mistakes on a teacher's placard.

Listen patiently and politely to the striker as he or she explains loudly why their pension needs to be better than yours, before smiling and saying 'thank you so much, that was very entertaining'. You should then offer them a sweet - perhaps a Rolo or a Chewitt.

Do not burp, spit or pick your nose at them.

A man should always open a door for a lady striker, even though she will find it violently sexist.

If the striker continues to insist that you should pay for his pension and that he should retire five years earlier than you, always say 'pardon me?' rather than 'huh?', 'come again?' or 'what in the name of shitting Fk are you talking about you delusional, self-serving piss-bucket?'.

 

[JohnH]

Neil, the strange thing is that there are other European countries who have a large public sector, whose employees pay into a pension scheme, and the whole thing works like clockwork. Their public sector pension system is affordable -- so we know it can be done.

Which makes you wonder just what the hell we've been doing in this country to end up with the bloody mess that we now have. :roll:

Which countries are these then?

Sweden's a good example.

But for unfunded schemes, including the NHS, teachers and civil service, the CBI thinks staff should migrate to pensions based on the Swedish model of 'notional defined contribution', which will provide guaranteed pensions without an unpredictable taxpayer liability. This scheme would offer a risk-free pension that is more sustainable and secures transparency for employers, staff and taxpayers.

http://www.thomasmurray.com/news-and-op ... t-says-cbi

There is much to admire about Sweden's public-sector pension system: in particular, the way in which the interests of low-paid workers have been preserved at the same time as the burden on taxpayers has been reduced.

The trick is what the pension professionals describe as a "notional defined-contribution" scheme. The problem in Britain is that public-sector pensions are guaranteed, locking taxpayers into expensive commitments which have to be met whatever the prevailing economic or financial conditions. In the private sector, meanwhile, these defined-benefit plans are rare. Instead, defined contribution is now the norm, with workers' pensions dependent on the vagaries of the markets.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busin ... 70606.html

 

[legrandefromage]

hows about these onions -

if the girl had been at school, she wouldnt have died:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-13987822