Baroness Warsi (Hats Off To..)

[poweredbypies]

Well its mainly hamas's fault, well they fire their piss ant rockets into israel then they get suprised when they come back at them with much better weaponary.

Dont take a knife to a gunfight.

 

[superstar1]

It seems we have one side who will protect its citizens at any cost and one side who will cynically put innocents in harms way for cheap political gain.

 

[secret_squirrel]

It seems we have one side who will protect its citizens at any cost and one side who will cynically put innocents in harms way for cheap political gain.

Hmmm

Let me fix that for you.

It seems we have one side who will protect its citizens at any cost and the same side who will cynically shell innocents for cheap political gain.

Anyone who thinks an Israeli response to a few rockets and tunnels that involves the murder of over 1000 civilians is proportionate is off their rocker.

The sad fact of the matter is that both the Israeli and Palestinian cultures have been so warped by 100's of years of conflict I don't actually believe that enough of them are capable of living in peace, hence my previous comment - if 2 children cant play nicely together - take their toys away.

 

[Bats]

Hundreds of years??

The zionist movement was a late victorian era thing, first as a couple dozen terrorist cells generally making a nuisance and looking daft. The whole thing only gained traction in '46 thanks to uncle Adolf generally making people feel unwelcome. Remember they only declared themselves "Israel" in '48, after enough poor sods got tricked into moving there to displace the locals.

Israel's start both as a threat to the Palestinian people and as a state are both within living memory.

Frankly I can't say there's anything warped about the Palestinian response at all. They cope with it about as well as you can when you've been handed your son's legs in a carrier bag.

As for Israeli military action, well. First we're told it's over dead teens (who now they admit hamas didn't touch), then rockets (that are totally ineffective drain pipes full of sugar), then "terror tunnels" (that are the only way to get most civilian supplies into Gaza). I suppose the next excuse will be "they pegged the washing out in an aggressive manner".

Using the rockets as an excuse was rich. "Somebody fired a man portable weapon from somewhere within 500 yards and didn't hit anything, then they left. so we'll demolish your hospital/school/house/UN Refugee Camp just in case they went inside. oh they're terrible you know, using these human shields. I feel terrible about blowing up unarmed children in the hope of maybe also getting a militant who might maybe also be there, but it simply must be done!"

That's when they're not chanting "There's no school in Gaza, there are no more kids left" in the streets.

 

[legrandefromage]

I'm voting Klingon next time.

Hab nach lalDan!

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

And Chopper - if you believe our politicians had anything to do with the ceasefire you are seriously deluded. Both sides stopped because they had made their point.

Quite possibly, but there's no doubt whatsoever that the FO put tremendous effort into trying, which Baroness Warsi seems to have overlooked. It is indeed quite likely that one side or boths agenda has been met, but that doesnt make the effort of the Foreign Secretary and british diplomats any the less valid or worth.

As for being deluded, I most certainly am, mainly with regards to the Tooth Fairy. Indeed, the good Baroness is a big fan of the Tooth Fairy herself if she thinks the British Government can go around publicly condeming countries, and then expect those very same counties to be interested into speaking with them about anything.

I'm not a fan of any politician really, but Cameron walked a burning tightrope and took a lot of heat for not condemning the israelis as war criminals, Nazis, trigger happy loons, or whatever, but he clearly had his eye on the bigger picture. Unlike Warsi, he clearly realises that if you call people silly names they'll probably not be interested in further dialogue.

I guess thats the difference between a statesman (or woman), and a jumped up councillor like Warsi or Salmond.

 

[Bats]

Who cares if Israel listen to the UK or not, given that the only things we ever say to them are "Here's some money" and "here's some weapons".

Changing tact to "stop that" and "no we're not giving you any more weapons" would do a world of good. They're a nuclear state, if they really want to play apartheid they can do it without our help.

I'm voting Klingon next time.

Hab nach lalDan!

Still a better fake language than "reconstructed" hebrew.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

We will never, ever, stop supplying them weapons. Israel is the only thing stopping the possiblke creation of a united muslim state or alliance stretching from Libya across to the northern border of India. For all sorts of strategic and commercial reasons they get plenty of willing support.

But then, perhaps it shouldnt be too over stated. They successfully developed nuclear weapons not just without any help from the west, but with actual opposition from the west, so relatively simple stuff like M4 rifles and tanks wouldnt stretch their ingenuity too much.

Over the last 70 eyars there are numerous examples where both 'sides' have grievously wronged the other, and the whole cycle of tit for tat is so mired in genuine history as well as misrepresentation and selective recall, that one other the other stumbling across a moral high ground and successfully staying there is slim. It really is gonna take a deep breath, pause, a willingness to forget the past if the region is to have a peaceful future.

 

[secret_squirrel]

It really is gonna take a deep breath, pause, a willingness to forget the past if the region is to have a peaceful future.

Unfortunately I don't see that ever happening with the extremists on both sides constantly holding sway.

Hamas and others deliberately send provocations to Israel confident in a massive overreaction in return which then breeds more martyrs and more radicalisation.

 

[superstar1]

It seems we have one side who will protect its citizens at any cost and one side who will cynically put innocents in harms way for cheap political gain.

Hmmm

Let me fix that for you.

It seems we have one side who will protect its citizens at any cost and the same side who will cynically shell innocents for cheap political gain.

Anyone who thinks an Israeli response to a few rockets and tunnels that involves the murder of over 1000 civilians is proportionate is off their rocker.

The sad fact of the matter is that both the Israeli and Palestinian cultures have been so warped by 100's of years of conflict I don't actually believe that enough of them are capable of living in peace, hence my previous comment - if 2 children cant play nicely together - take their toys away.

So what you are saying is if you keep throwing your toys at the big lad that lives next door, sooner or later he's going to kick your feking head in.