Aren't sportspeople supposed to be examples to our kids?

[Neil]

No.

x2
as john says why do people assume they have to be more than footballers?

Because, these days, like it or not - they are more than just footballers.

Football has long since moved on from people who are simply good at kicking around a ball, and being paid well - that boat has sailed.

If they, or others, don't like them being judged as role models, then I guess it's beholden on them to avoid the limelight, and not be so damned stupid, or arrogant, or both, to get caught.

do you see them as role models Neil?

Not personally - that's not the point, though - I'm not exactly the demograph.

Does anyone outside the tv and the newspapers really think they are?

Yes - kids and young people all over the place, probably other groups / types, too.

It is in the media's interest to project them as more than footballers (as they can then shoot them down from the heights they elevated them to, in the first place) honestly do you really think people in our society are so stupid as to think footballers are individuals we should look to on matters of right and wrong, moral and imoral?

Yup - I really do.

Some people view Katie Price / Jordan as a role model.

There's simply no accounting for the sorts of people that some groups in society perceive as admirable, role models, or aspirational.

I credit people with a bit more sense, everyone loves the scandal sheet stories but no-one then says "if it's alright for "put in your football figure of hate here" then it's alright for me.

Kudos.

If only more had that perspective.

Unfortunately - for us all - they don't.

Why do you think so many are involved with publicists?

In the case of the then England captain, last year - wasn't there an attempted injunction and other PR people involved? That sort of pre-emptiveness, says to me, that these people are well aware of the impact on society, and to the degree they either need or want, to manage that perspective.

 

[clockworkgazz]

Just because we are told they are role models does not mean people really believe it and if you and I can to see behind the smoke and mirrors I would wager the vast majority can to- lets face it, it's not really that difficult.

My kids love footballers but it's because they score overhead kicks not because they have a very successfull 10 year relationship and 3 happy well ajusted kids or because they make large donations tothe local homeless centre.

and please don't mention miss price arrrrghhhh!

 

[brocklanders023]

Ferdinand?? I wonder why he 'forgot' his drug test? He screwed Leeds when he left and there were plenty of stories coming out of the city about his model behaviour back then.

I'm guessing you're a Leeds fan going by your vitriol aimed at Man U players

It could be argued that Leeds could have gone to the wall if it wasn't for the £11m profit they made on Ferdinand being sold.

How did you guess

We went to the wall anyway so it didn't make much difference. Ferdinand jumped ship (after he'd said he wouldn't) before the major sh*t storm. He certainly didn't do it to help the club out.

I just think it's takes the pee a bit when people say Terry is a disgrace but then hold turds like Ferdinand up as a shining example. People have short memories (especially when it comes to your mob).

 

[Tazio]

Ferdinand?? I wonder why he 'forgot' his drug test? He screwed Leeds when he left and there were plenty of stories coming out of the city about his model behaviour back then.

I'm guessing you're a Leeds fan going by your vitriol aimed at Man U players

It could be argued that Leeds could have gone to the wall if it wasn't for the £11m profit they made on Ferdinand being sold.

How did you guess

We went to the wall anyway so it didn't make much difference. Ferdinand jumped ship (after he'd said he wouldn't) before the major sh*t storm. He certainly didn't do it to help the club out.

I just think it's takes the pee a bit when people say Terry is a disgrace but then hold turds like Ferdinand up as a shining example. People have short memories (especially when it comes to your mob).

Not my mob, not by a million miles. The only English team i have any affection for is Spurs but only as a team I like to follow the results. I'm a season ticket holder at the club I have supported all my life.

 

[clockworkgazz]

well in the arabs

 

[Tazio]

well in the arabs

Schadenfreude is no way to enjoy sport

I'm getting nervous, you're only 13 points behind us now :roll:

 

[Neil]

Just because we are told they are role models does not mean people really believe it and if you and I can to see behind the smoke and mirrors I would wager the vast majority can to- lets face it, it's not really that difficult.

Yet despite all that, they are still role models for people.

Some may not like it - it may be intellectually offensive for some, it may mean we can't just conveniently compartmentalise and say "Surely all that matters is how well they kick a leather ball around a pitch..." - but all the same, it's true - as I said previously, that boat has sailed, that's no point denying it.

My kids love footballers but it's because they score overhead kicks not because they have a very successfull 10 year relationship and 3 happy well ajusted kids or because they make large donations tothe local homeless centre.

Was that ever in dispute, though?

They may become role models because of what they do, how good they are at it, and what they get for it. And they may also become role models, merely because they are famous, have nice lifestyles, are rich, or get a lot of publicity.

All the same, it's rarely based purely on merit, logic or a balance of factors - merely what appeals to the demographs.

and please don't mention miss price arrrrghhhh!

I thought that would raise ire - but all the same, it's entirely germane to the topic - people like her are also role models - as irritating as that may well be.

I mean, how many autobiographies has she had ghost-written about her, FFS.

 

[clockworkgazz]

my def of role model is def not the same as yours or indeed the authoritive wikipedia

"The term role model generally means any "person who serves as an example, whose behaviour is emulated by others".[1]

The term first appeared in Robert K. Merton's socialization research of medical students.[2] Merton hypothesized that individuals compare themselves with reference groups of people who occupy the social role to which the individual aspires.[2]

According to a survey of teachers in the U.K. conducted in 2008 by the Association of Teachers and Lecturers young people frequently chose role models from celebrity culture such as David and Victoria Beckham or Paris Hilton and emulate their appearance and manner.[3] According to the teachers surveyed the most popular role models of British school children in 2008 were:

David Beckham
Victoria Beckham - Posh
Frank Lampard
Keira Knightly
David Tennant
Paris Hilton
Lewis Hamilton
Sugababes
Leona Lewis
Nadine Coyle (Girls Aloud)
Lily Allen
Johnny Depp
Kelly Holmes
Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter)
Mischa Barton (The OC)
Kelly Osbourne
Russell Brand
Peaches Geldof[4] "

however only one footballer (a chelsea player, so he does not count) in the list so QED, Footballers are not role models- I rest my case :twisted:

 

[Neil]

my def of role model is def not the same as yours or indeed the authoritive wikipedia

"The term role model generally means any "person who serves as an example, whose behaviour is emulated by others".[1]

I'd agree with that - not necessarily emulated - but certainly serves as an example, or is what people would aspire to, ideally.

According to a survey of teachers in the U.K. conducted in 2008 by the Association of Teachers and Lecturers young people frequently chose role models from celebrity culture such as David and Victoria Beckham or Paris Hilton and emulate their appearance and manner.[3] According to the teachers surveyed the most popular role models of British school children in 2008 were:

David Beckham
Victoria Beckham - Posh
Frank Lampard
Keira Knightly
David Tennant
Paris Hilton
Lewis Hamilton
Sugababes
Leona Lewis
Nadine Coyle (Girls Aloud)
Lily Allen
Johnny Depp
Kelly Holmes
Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter)
Mischa Barton (The OC)
Kelly Osbourne
Russell Brand
Peaches Geldof[4] "

however only one footballer (a chelsea player, so he does not count) in the list so QED, Footballers are not role models- I rest my case :twisted:

Well unless that is a joke, I count 2, so I'm disputing that you really did QED ;-)

All the same, though, we don't need a survey or a group of teachers to define people that are - or aren't for that matter - it's clearly apparent from actually listening to the people who do look at such people with stars in their eyes, or reading / looking at the things that support such fandom.

 

[clockworkgazz]

who is the other footballer? :?