1998 Orange P7 Tourer/ATB

[Splatter Paint]

Here's where I got with it today. VO Happy stem came in the post and fitted it. I'm obviously still learning about bike fit and after looking at some photos of 90s mountain bikes built as bikepacking/touring rigs I noticed that hardly anyone has bars much higher than the saddle, and when they do, it's usually just by an inch at most.

I was trying to match the fit to my other bike that I cycled to Bristol on, but turns out it doesn't work that way. I had 100mm of spacers on this along with this stem and it just felt like a completley upright bike, way more upright than my Kona, despite the rough measurements being the same. The top tube is shorter on this and the headtube slacker and I suppose that influences fit quite a lot! I slowly lowered the bars down, and ended up cutting 25mm off of the steerer tube and I've ended up with this, the bars just a smidge higher than the saddle.

It feels really, really good like this. I've never ridden a bike that I feel so in control of. Standing up on the pedals feels super effortless and I'm able to move my body weight around really comfortably. I'm planning to get a riser bar to allow for more reach adjustment anyway, so I'm thinking to cut the head tube more and knock it down 40mm or so. Then with a smidge of saddle nose up/down and setting the position on the rails right, I think I'll have a bike that fits!

Ordered a Pelago Commuter front rack too, and went a slightly different path with my front bag choices. Will be revealed soon!

View attachment 957358

Before you get too carried away with cutting, may I suggest only changing things by 5mm at a time?

 

[Splatter Paint]

Your shifters would be able to index 7 speeds, but not 9

 

[bikeworkshop]

Update(s) on this. I've put it all together and done all the cables. Ridden it to and from work about 4 times and I'm enjoying it. On my Kona I don't usually like to stand on the pedals, but on this I find myself standing on them much more! The saddle is really annoying me, wish I had the money to swap the saddle colour!

The geo is a bit too aggressive for long-ish stints in the saddle, but I have some wider, riser bars with backsweep on the way that should solve that. I've also got some XTR cartridge carriers and a bunch of Aztec pads that will replace the metal-ridden Tektro ones that I have on there temporarily. All my touring bags are now with me, but I still haven't got my front rack so cannot do a test fit yet.

I also noticed today that the XT front deraileur was complete toast. Loads of play in all axes, only when the mechanism is pulled, hence I didn't notice it before. It makes getting the H screw set impossible since when set correctly (1mm gap between chain and cage when on outer cog) the deraileur just doesn't push the chain onto the cog since it moves around so much, but if I set the H screw further out, I just shift the chain off the ring entirely.

I'm also wondering if there's a way I can make my shifters "more indexed"??? I know this probably sounds stupid (I have friction shifters) but I struggle to trim the gears sometimes, especially when accelerating quickly from a standstill. When I ride I usually pre-emptively shift down when I stop before traffic lights, going from say the smallest cog (9) to a larger cog (4), but since I'm still holding the speed that the smallest cog gave me, I can't really feel the RD shifting up the cassette. I then only find out if the gear is properly selected when I set off again, and it usually isn't. Perhaps I should just change my riding habit and start from a smaller cog.

Will post some pics soon!

Post a side-on pic of the bike setup with saddle at the right height.

Bottom swing grunt mechs die like that. If there's more than a few mm play at the back of the cage, it'll be hard to index.

Vague old Friction, great on 6, was losing it on 8, 9 is worse.
Don't tell the FrictionThumbyBrigade I said that, but it's true.

 

[originsoundd]

Bottom swing grunt mechs die like that. If there's more than a few mm play at the back of the cage, it'll be hard to index.

It only has play when it's not at its H/L stops. Makes sense. Something else I noticed was that my spokes seem "loose". They are all the same-ish tension and I did get the wheels trued. The spokes on my other bike are much much tighter though. Something that needs fixing?

Photos:

 

[bikeworkshop]

Something else I noticed was that my spokes seem "loose". They are all the same-ish tension and I did get the wheels trued. The spokes on my other bike are much much tighter though. Something that needs fixing?

The rear drive side will be tightest.
"Ping"
The front and the rear non drive side will be a tone or 2 lower.

If you've had them trued, you'd assume they've checked the tension, but you could drop back and ask.

Loaded Touring tension is more important than on a showpiece.

A quick look at your setup:
Put the saddle exactly flat - it can make a big difference.
Clamp it onto the post midpoint on the saddle rails.
Sit on the saddle, place your heel on the pedal at the bottom of the pedal stroke.
Your leg should be nearly straight, but not quite.
Put your elbow on the nose of the saddle with arm pointing forwards- the bars should be 2 or 3 cm away from your fingertips.
I would suggest you start with the bar at the same height as the saddle. many people think a high handlebar is more comfortable, but it rarely is.

Preferably you'd also have bar ends pointing a little up from forward.
This gives you multiple hand positions and the ability to move in the saddle and climb efficiently standing.

 

[originsoundd]

The rear drive side will be tightest.
"Ping"
The front and the rear non drive side will be a tone or 2 lower.

If you've had them trued, you'd assume they've checked the tension, but you could drop back and ask.

Loaded Touring tension is more important than on a showpiece.
View attachment 959705
A quick look at your setup:
Put the saddle exactly flat - it can make a big difference.
Clamp it onto the post midpoint on the saddle rails.
Sit on the saddle, place your heel on the pedal at the bottom of the pedal stroke.
Your leg should be nearly straight, but not quite.
Put your elbow on the nose of the saddle with arm pointing forwards- the bars should be 2 or 3 cm away from your fingertips.
I would suggest you start with the bar at the same height as the saddle. many people think a high handlebar is more comfortable, but it rarely is.

Preferably you'd also have bar ends pointing a little up from forward.
This gives you multiple hand positions and the ability to move in the saddle and climb efficiently standing.

Just plucked the spokes, seems about in accordance with what you said.

Straightneing the saddle helped a lot! Feels a lot more stable. I see people run the nose up on a lot of touring bikes, is that worth giving a go?

My arms are about 4-6cm away from the bars. The bars I've got on the way have some backsweep so hopefully it'll be okay. Bar ends in the post too! I'll try take a headset spacer or two out now.

Just had a go. Need to cut the steerer more since the stem bottoms out on the fork. I might wait for my bars to arrive before doing this, what do you think?

By the way, I'm super appreciative of all this help your giving me! Next time I'm in Bristol will make sure to pop over.

 

[bikeworkshop]

Keep the saddle flat.
That's how they are designed.
Some people adjust nose up our nose down, but it's usually because their bike isn't a good fit.

(Don't tell them I said that, they'll get angry )

The backsweep might help, but I'd lean towards saying the stem is a little tall and long - a 35⁰ 80mm stem might be better.

When a bike isn't set up right for owner/use, the way you feel its wrong is different to the way it actually is wrong, if you see what I mean.
That makes it hard for the owner to adjust.

 

[originsoundd]

Keep the saddle flat.
That's how they are designed.
Some people adjust nose up our nose down, but it's usually because their bike isn't a good fit.

(Don't tell them I said that, they'll get angry )

The backsweep might help, but I'd lean towards saying the stem is a little tall and long - a 35⁰ 80mm stem might be better.

When a bike isn't set up right for owner/use, the way you feel its wrong is different to the way it actually is wrong, if you see what I mean.
That makes it hard for the owner to adjust.

Wouldn't an 80mm stem drastically increase the reach though? And I get what you mean about the feel. I'm guessing through experience that is negated.

 

[bikeworkshop]

I'm guessing the stem length - you really want to start with the bars at the same height or slightly lower than the saddle, and 20mm off your fingertips.
New bar Sweep will push this forward for the right amount of "lean" so I went a bit longer.

You want your back and arms to be at about the same angle

 

[originsoundd]

I'm guessing the stem length - you really want to start with the bars at the same height or slightly lower than the saddle, and 20mm off your fingertips.
New bar Sweep will push this forward for the right amount of "lean" so I went a bit longer.

You want your back and arms to be at about the same angle
View attachment 959783

Interesting. Well, I'll be able to rotate the bar forwards/backwards and cut the steerer tube to achieve that I hope. Don't think I can afford another stem! Unless I buy one of those cheap adjustable ones.