Frame Tubing Sets - weights

[Old Ned]

I've acquired a few copies of 'Cyclist' magazine from 1982 (how long did it last?) and there are quite a few interesting articles etc. in there.

For starters, here is a list of tubing set weights. A set includes Head, Top, Down and Seat Tubes, Fork Blades, Chain and Seat Stays, Steering Column. All uncut before building.

Ishiwata 015 - 1595gms.
Tange Pro Champ - 1600gms.
Columbus Record - 1610gms.
Columbus KL - 1670gms.
Reynolds 753 - 1760gms.
Super Vitus 980 - 1805gms.
Columbus PL - 1840gms.
Ishiwata 017 - 1855gms.
Columbus SL - 1925gms.
Tange Champ No. 1 - 1960gms.
Ishiwata 019 - 1990gms.
Reynolds 531SL - 1995gms.
Tange Champ No. 2 - 2050gms.
Ishiwata 021 - 2065gms.
Tange Champ No. 3 - 2130gms.
Reynolds 531 - 2140gms.
Columbus Aelle - 2345gms.
Reynolds SMS - 2700gms.

I've missed a few of the more obscure ones out but I think that it's quite interesting to see where the more commonly seen Reynolds and Columbus sets appear in the 'league table'.

There is also a list of recommended tube weights and associated rider weights -

1595 - 1670gms. rider weight 80-125 pounds, up to 55cm frame size
1670 - 2000gms. rider weight 125-150 pounds, 48-59 frame size
2000 - 2300gms. rider weight 160-200 pounds, 59-65 frame size

 

[Steve Kish]

May well explain why my Ishi 015 Shorter lo-pro flexed like spaghetti with me at 177lbs shoving it along in a 128" gear (57 x 12)!

FWIW, I had no such problems with 017.

 

[The Don]

Thought my Aelle was rather *ahem* robust

 

[daccordimark]

That's quite interesting as I've always believed my Columbus SL frame was heavier than the 531SL one it replaced. It's a darn sight stiffer that's for sure.

Mark.

 

[ededwards]

Good stuff - I've got a Hilary Stone article from November 1994 that details the differences between Reynolds and Columbus tubing in terms of tube diameter as well as having a commentary on tubing qualities. I'll scan it if there is any interest.

 

[Old Ned]

Tube diameter would be interesting as the seat tube on my lugless Dave Russell is larger than the MKM Ultimate and I've always thought they are both 531. Perhaps, with it being lugless, the builder used a different seat tube from the normal 531 'standard' set since it didn't have to fit into any lugs. However, it takes a 27.2 pin as usual.

 

[lastpubrunner]

MKM Ultimate

I've always hankered after getting one of these . . . or a Sun Manx TT.

I'd be very interested to know, what is it like to ride ?

 

[ededwards]

Tube diameter would be interesting as the seat tube on my lugless Dave Russell is larger than the MKM Ultimate and I've always thought they are both 531. Perhaps, with it being lugless, the builder used a different seat tube from the normal 531 'standard' set since it didn't have to fit into any lugs. However, it takes a 27.2 pin as usual.

Ok, rather than a scan here's the details for 531 (note: these are the same for 653, 708 and 753 but, as the name suggests, oversize for 731OS):

Down tube - 28.6mm (1 1/8th") diameter
Seat tube - 28.6mm (1 1/8th") diameter
Top tube - 25.4mm (1") diameter
Chainstays - 22.2mm diameter round/oval/round

So perhaps, as you say, it is a different seat tube?

Tube thicknesses (sb = single butted, db = double butted, measurements in mm):

531c
Top tube - 0.8/0.5db
Down tube - 0.9/0.6db
Seat tube - 0.8/0.5sb
Fork blade - 1.0/0.5
Seatstay - 0.5 x 16
Chainstay - 0.8

531ST
Top tube - 1.0/0.7db
Down tube - 1.0/0.7db
Seat tube - 1.0/0.7db
Fork blade - 1.2/0.8
Seatstay - 0.9 x 16
Chainstay - 0.8


Only 653Record has a thinner seat tube than 0.5db (it's 0.4db) so the seatpin size doesn't really reveal anything of use.

Not sure if any of that helps.

 

[Old Ned]

MKM Ultimate

I've always hankered after getting one of these . . . or a Sun Manx TT.

I'd be very interested to know, what is it like to ride ?

For the right person - probably very fast.

For me - not very fast (but lively!)

 

[Old Ned]

Tube diameter would be interesting as the seat tube on my lugless Dave Russell is larger than the MKM Ultimate and I've always thought they are both 531. Perhaps, with it being lugless, the builder used a different seat tube from the normal 531 'standard' set since it didn't have to fit into any lugs. However, it takes a 27.2 pin as usual.

Ok, rather than a scan here's the details for 531 (note: these are the same for 653, 708 and 753 but, as the name suggests, oversize for 731OS):

Down tube - 28.6mm (1 1/8th") diameter
Seat tube - 28.6mm (1 1/8th") diameter
Top tube - 25.4mm (1") diameter
Chainstays - 22.2mm diameter round/oval/round

So perhaps, as you say, it is a different seat tube?

Tube thicknesses (sb = single butted, db = double butted, measurements in mm):

531c
Top tube - 0.8/0.5db
Down tube - 0.9/0.6db
Seat tube - 0.8/0.5sb
Fork blade - 1.0/0.5
Seatstay - 0.5 x 16
Chainstay - 0.8

531ST
Top tube - 1.0/0.7db
Down tube - 1.0/0.7db
Seat tube - 1.0/0.7db
Fork blade - 1.2/0.8
Seatstay - 0.9 x 16
Chainstay - 0.8


Only 653Record has a thinner seat tube than 0.5db (it's 0.4db) so the seatpin size doesn't really reveal anything of use.

Not sure if any of that helps.

Thanks Ed, I'll get my vernier calipers out!