Condor No2 - Bill Hurlow 1959.

[Old Ned]

Very nice. I'm rather surprised by the allen key seat bolt on a '59 frame though. Bill Hurlow must have been ahead of the pack!

Invented by Hurlow on Classic Rendezvous http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Britis ... Hurlow.htm

Don't doubt his inventiveness but did he use it in '59? Can't find a date when it was introduced and the BH built Mal Rees 'Rameles' from the 60's on the CL BH website has a 'conventional' one. My mid 60's Harry Quinn used a conventional clamp and Harry too was an enthusiastic user of new ideas.

 

[dan73uk]

Re: Re:

Assume you have a frame number: I am doubting the vintage. I also note, although I've not read all the articles, there's no mention of Roberts building frames for Condor - which they did.

Nice frame though.

Rk.

Thanks, Research I've made so far points to 1959 but I could be wrong -

Frame number is 59120 and according to Condor website (1st link) their frames from 48'-80' had 4-5 digit frame numbers with 90s frames having 5-6 digits.
The 1st two digits are the year with 2nd or 3rd were the run number,This format was reversed some times with the run number first and then the year.

Hurlow page on CL (3rd link) has Bill Hurlow working for Condor from 54' - 58' and creating classic lugs for them, No1, 2 & 3 and this frame has No 2 lugs. Hurlow continued to build frames for Condor after leaving in 58' for around a further 10 years.

Another link https://issuu.com/condorcycles/docs
provides Condor catalogues which show the No 2 lugs in the 1950 catalogue but are not then clearly available in the next catalogue in the mid 60s.

The previous owner stated that the frame was repainted around 78'-82',Hence the later decals.

I don't quite understand the mention of Roberts?

 

[dan73uk]

Re: Re:

Stunning frameset!

Not wanting to add to questioning of the age of this but a pre-1980s head badge should have "90 Grays Inn Rd." as the address. After they moved, I'm guessing the number was filed off. Obviously your head badge could be a replacement.

Thanks, I see what you mean from the HT photo (they are sellers) and looks like the property number is missing /filed away. I will check when it arrives and investigate further.
The previous owner stated that the frame was repainted around 78'-82',Hence the later decals and of course this could mean that the badge was replaced at this time.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, lovely frame, a good buy as well, I have two condors from around this time, one has been restored and the other still original and looking at your frame everything looks right, except for the seat lug as pointed out, but surely this could of been a good repair from someone who knows what they doing, when it was repainted. It is just a minor point which wouldn't detract from the lovely lug work and a quality frame - enjoy. Terry

 

[dan73uk]

Very nice. I'm rather surprised by the allen key seat bolt on a '59 frame though. Bill Hurlow must have been ahead of the pack!

Invented by Hurlow on Classic Rendezvous http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Britis ... Hurlow.htm

Don't doubt his inventiveness but did he use it in '59? Can't find a date when it was introduced and the BH built Mal Rees 'Rameles' from the 60's on the CL BH website has a 'conventional' one. My mid 60's Harry Quinn used a conventional clamp and Harry too was an enthusiastic user of new ideas.

Good point raised, My research has Hurlow working at Condor from 54'-58' and after leaving in 58' continuing to produce frames for Condor for another 10 years.
This link has Condor catalogues https://issuu.com/condorcycles/docs and in the mid 60s catalogue on page 4 there is an image of a frame with an Allen key seat stay which suggests early use of this method with the shot in seat stays.

 

[dan73uk]

Re: Re:

Hi, lovely frame, a good buy as well, I have two condors from around this time, one has been restored and the other still original and looking at your frame everything looks right, except for the seat lug as pointed out, but surely this could of been a good repair from someone who knows what they doing, when it was repainted. It is just a minor point which wouldn't detract from the lovely lug work and a quality frame - enjoy. Terry

Thanks Terry, It is feasible that it's a repair, My research has Hurlow working at Condor from 54'-58' and after leaving in 58' continuing to produce frames for Condor for another 10 years.
This link has Condor catalogues https://issuu.com/condorcycles/docs and in the mid 60s catalogue on page 4 there is an image of a frame with an Allen key seat stay which suggests early use of this method with the shot in seat stays.

 

[roadking]

Re: Re:

I don't quite understand the mention of Roberts?

Nothing to understand, I mention Roberts simply because Roberts aren't mentioned on CL or CR, but they did build frames for Condor.

I'm just adding to the collective knowledge

Rk.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi RK, yes indeed, I believe Condor always had quality builders doing the top line frames, with the lower ones still being well sourced, some from Italy and you are right there are gaps, and there is no reason Roberts couldn't of built some, the only documented builders are Mr Hurlow 50/60's up to 1968/9 ( I do have a Condor Hurlow No3 from 1968 - the classic H on the top of the stay and serial number correct ), then Vic Edwards I think made them up to the mid/late 70's and then there is a gap to Mr Yates who made the top frames from mid 80's to the mid 90's. Thanks Terry

 

[roadking]

Re: Re:

Hi RK, yes indeed, I believe Condor always had quality builders doing the top line frames, with the lower ones still being well sourced, some from Italy and you are right there are gaps, and there is no reason Roberts couldn't of built some, the only documented builders are Mr Hurlow 50/60's up to 1968/9 ( I do have a Condor Hurlow No3 from 1968 - the classic H on the top of the stay and serial number correct ), then Vic Edwards I think made them up to the mid/late 70's and then there is a gap to Mr Yates who made the top frames from mid 80's to the mid 90's. Thanks Terry

Hi Terry,

trust you are well: for the record Roberts* did build frames for Condor, and for specific pro riders bitd.

Best, Rk.

*some more details on this very soon (not on this thread).

 

[torqueless]

Re:

So here is a question:

There seem to have been many examples of bike shops whose frames were built by one framebuilder over a given time period, but which shops sporadically employed other framebuilders often associated with other shops. My question is: Was the frame numbering system the property/responsibility of the shop, or of the framebuilder?

In this example, was there a "Condor frame number system" continuous across Bill Hurlow and Vic Edwards, to which any other "guest builders" would be asked to conform, or did each framebuilder use their own numbering system regardless of the shop (and transfers) the frame was destined for?