Campagnolo 50th Anniversary Chainset and BB Advice Please
- Thread starter John J
- Start date
D
Deleted member 24574
Re: Re:
SOrry, I didn't properly read the details in the OPs note about the BB width.
Yes I believe the above to be correct but I have not done any retro builds using British threaded shells.
I assume the 70-SS indicates that the axel is for a 70 mm Italian BB.
I have measured mine and they are 69 - 69.5mm so I assume they have lost a bit being faced.
Boscarn":2jgwe4py said:
SOrry, I didn't properly read the details in the OPs note about the BB width.
Yes I believe the above to be correct but I have not done any retro builds using British threaded shells.
I assume the 70-SS indicates that the axel is for a 70 mm Italian BB.
I have measured mine and they are 69 - 69.5mm so I assume they have lost a bit being faced.
Re:
I have been researching this and this is what I have found
The spreadsheet below is based on a Campagnolo Document issued end 82/ start 83, and summarises the combinations of Super Record and Nuovo Record Bottom Brackets produced at that time, (50th Anniversary being a 1983 issue ). I believe "Old Style" to mean 1977 and earlier, and "New Style", 1977 to 1983.
Accepting that 115.5mm is the correct spindle length for a Super Record Crankset in a 68mm BB Shell, as in my application, I am intrigued that apparently a Super Record BB Set was not part of the Group as sold. Apparently they were generally sold with a Nuovo Record BB Set, the closest length available being 112.5mm for the same 68mm shell. If anybody does have a 50th Anniversary Group fitted in 68mm BSC shell I'd love to know the spindle length.
Moving on, the following is an extract from Campagnolo's 1983 Catalogue, Bottom Bracket Sets.
This document seems to conflict with the first document by detailing a spindle length of 112mm, (68mm Shell), for Record, Nuovo Record and Gran Sport Road doubles; Super Record is conspicuous by its absence!
The third document is also from the 83 Catalogue and details Chainline for a 120mm OLN 5 speed spacing, specifying a Chainline of 43.5mm for all shell widths, (68, 70 and 74mm). I have assumed this is based on the 112mm spindle as described above.
Now. Super Record / 50th Anniversary, being a 6 speed group, presumably requires an adjustment to the Chainline for 125mm OLN, 6 speed spacing. The dimensions A, B and C, quoted in the spreadsheet represent, from the non drive side spindle end to the outer bearing thickening edge, (Dimension B), drive side spindle end to outer bearing thickening, (Dimension C), with Dimension A being the centre section.
We can see from the spreadsheet that our two favoured spindles, (115.5mm SR, and 112/112.5mm NR), are both Assymetric by the same amount, (3.5mm). Therefore I calculate that the 115.5mm SR spindle would give a chainline of 45mm in practice.
I'd appreciate people's further thoughts and comments please.
John
I have been researching this and this is what I have found
The spreadsheet below is based on a Campagnolo Document issued end 82/ start 83, and summarises the combinations of Super Record and Nuovo Record Bottom Brackets produced at that time, (50th Anniversary being a 1983 issue ). I believe "Old Style" to mean 1977 and earlier, and "New Style", 1977 to 1983.
Accepting that 115.5mm is the correct spindle length for a Super Record Crankset in a 68mm BB Shell, as in my application, I am intrigued that apparently a Super Record BB Set was not part of the Group as sold. Apparently they were generally sold with a Nuovo Record BB Set, the closest length available being 112.5mm for the same 68mm shell. If anybody does have a 50th Anniversary Group fitted in 68mm BSC shell I'd love to know the spindle length.
Moving on, the following is an extract from Campagnolo's 1983 Catalogue, Bottom Bracket Sets.
This document seems to conflict with the first document by detailing a spindle length of 112mm, (68mm Shell), for Record, Nuovo Record and Gran Sport Road doubles; Super Record is conspicuous by its absence!
The third document is also from the 83 Catalogue and details Chainline for a 120mm OLN 5 speed spacing, specifying a Chainline of 43.5mm for all shell widths, (68, 70 and 74mm). I have assumed this is based on the 112mm spindle as described above.
Now. Super Record / 50th Anniversary, being a 6 speed group, presumably requires an adjustment to the Chainline for 125mm OLN, 6 speed spacing. The dimensions A, B and C, quoted in the spreadsheet represent, from the non drive side spindle end to the outer bearing thickening edge, (Dimension B), drive side spindle end to outer bearing thickening, (Dimension C), with Dimension A being the centre section.
We can see from the spreadsheet that our two favoured spindles, (115.5mm SR, and 112/112.5mm NR), are both Assymetric by the same amount, (3.5mm). Therefore I calculate that the 115.5mm SR spindle would give a chainline of 45mm in practice.
I'd appreciate people's further thoughts and comments please.
John
D
Deleted member 24574
Re:
Good research there; I will study that later.
I got the below message from Nigel @ CampyOldy.com when I was researching a couple of years ago.
"I could no longer contain my curiosity and found my 50th group #3725 has normal steel cups & axle NR BB set. H/set is alloy SR as expected. Its a BSC threads set not surprisingly as I bought it from an importer, there would have been very low demand for IT thread sets here 30yrs ago. It is perfectly possible that Camp put Tita sets in say IT sets for a while, who knows; no-one still working there for sure."
I think we perhaps give Campag a bit too much credit for production control; given the range of options I suspect sets were shipped with a range of different BBs.
All I know is 70-SS works fine for my builds with Italian frames.
I am sure a SR or NR 68-SS would work fine for you.
6 speed is quite tolerant on chain line.
ALthough I now have a Campag freewheel rather than the Regina of previous builds (saving almost 300g) so that may change things.
Good research there; I will study that later.
I got the below message from Nigel @ CampyOldy.com when I was researching a couple of years ago.
"I could no longer contain my curiosity and found my 50th group #3725 has normal steel cups & axle NR BB set. H/set is alloy SR as expected. Its a BSC threads set not surprisingly as I bought it from an importer, there would have been very low demand for IT thread sets here 30yrs ago. It is perfectly possible that Camp put Tita sets in say IT sets for a while, who knows; no-one still working there for sure."
I think we perhaps give Campag a bit too much credit for production control; given the range of options I suspect sets were shipped with a range of different BBs.
All I know is 70-SS works fine for my builds with Italian frames.
I am sure a SR or NR 68-SS would work fine for you.
6 speed is quite tolerant on chain line.
ALthough I now have a Campag freewheel rather than the Regina of previous builds (saving almost 300g) so that may change things.
D
Deleted member 24574
John J":2bvqywfa said:
Both sets I have have spindles marked 70-SS and they are both 115.5mm, measured with a digital vernier gauge, twice ... so this measurement does not match up with your data sheets :roll:
I have measured the asymmetry of the spindles and I get about 2.5mm although there is a bit more estimation in that figure as the reference point is variable.
I am not 100% certain how to tell the difference between a SR & NR BB ... one of mine is a shiny finish and the other dull grey so perhaps one of each.
I am sure you will be fine with a 68-SS with a length of 112.5 or a 68-SS-120 with a length of 113-115 ...
How much of the chain line is set by the crank bolt torque ... that is the next conundrum ... grease the tapers or not??
Midlife
Retro Wizard
From a practical point of view the axles grew in length a tad mid 70's to compensate for the lip needed on the front mech but didn't make a critical difference so anything stamped 68-SS-120 or 68-SS should work... 112-113 mm
The SR bottom brackets came with titanium axles, first gen were hollow and allegedly had a tendency to snap. Second gen were solid titanium....both made by OMAS, aping their Big Sliding titanium BB.
The axles shrank when C-Record came out in 1985
Shaun
The SR bottom brackets came with titanium axles, first gen were hollow and allegedly had a tendency to snap. Second gen were solid titanium....both made by OMAS, aping their Big Sliding titanium BB.
The axles shrank when C-Record came out in 1985
Shaun
originalshinkicker
rBotM Winner
I have 68mm shell SBDU with Super Record chainset (1980 - essentially the same piece of kit in terms of technical design as the 1983 anniversary crank). It is fitted to a steel NR BB which measures 114.5mm end to end. Fit between inner ring and chainstay is great and chainline is perfect. This guy sells NOS Campag stuff and lists axles lengths, cup types etc. He lists BSC as 114.5 and Italian as 115.5
http://00eda5d.netsolhost.com/bottom.html
You can go mad trying to find answers to this question on the internet as nothing seems to tally, even with Campag official information.
http://00eda5d.netsolhost.com/bottom.html
You can go mad trying to find answers to this question on the internet as nothing seems to tally, even with Campag official information.
originalshinkicker":25kqr47v said:
Thank you for confirming the details of your installation. I certainly agree that there is a lot of confusing information on the internet.
I have a few different combinations to try, so time for a dry run to check the Chainline and clearances.
Thanks again to everybody who has contributed to this thread.
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