26” Endurance Ride Cunningdale build.

doctor-bond

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So, spurred to action by the thread about whether a 26“ wheeled MTB could cope and be viable on a huge day ride - 150 odd mile Coast to coast - I’m going to build a drop bar thing and see how far I get.

Original thread is here the gist of which is 26ers are too slow and crap so the coast to coast organisers won’t let them in.

Anyway, I’m convinced/deluded that I have a chance by building a light drop bar 26er in the style of the lovely Cunningham racers. Inspiration:

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Looking in the shed, I’ve got a small Cannondale 3 series frameset. And I’ve got a set of BB1s that I swap on various builds, and are always comfy. Things to consider so far:

Must be light.
Should be close to the positioning of my touring bike which I know can handle long days.
Could be 3x1 speed. Makes it a challenge and gears are overrated.
Tyres will prolly be critical: a big difference to a roadie is rolling resistance (anyone know how to translate resistance watt ratings for tyres into time on the road over a set distance?)


I’ve ordered a 450mm post, so will mock up the position and take it from there. Let the game commence ....
 
Nice if you can pull it off, that's my unicorn bike right there, currently working on my own Cunningham inspired dirt drop build, although i'm going for steel rather than aluminium so it's very much an aesthetic tribute, good luck with the project, will follow with interest. 👌
 

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@hamster yes, supremes are on the cards (infact I short listed those by searching some of your threads). I’m also thinking that if I want to emulate roadie rolling resistance I may need to consider super skinny 1 or 1.25 options. Not sure what’s out there these days but BITD it was Specialized Turbo slicks. For this gig, resistance vs punctureproofiness is the balance.

@Tsundere , I’m with you: I love them, & even though those bikes are now museum pieces, those Jacquie photos really bring them alive. I love the one where she is cresting a hill and there’s a guy pushing his bike over the summit behind. :cool:

@legrandefromage That bike is so sweet. So much so that I bought the frame from you a number of years ago! It’s still going strong - now with bullmooseseseses.
 
I think the lowest rolling resistance tyres in 26" are the newer folding conti speed kings. Either the Racesport, or the shieldwall. Pumped up hard they are pretty damn fast rolling on tarmac and dry smooth off-road stuff, as there isn't much in the way of tread. There is some volume, for comfort, too.

Check out bicyclerollingresistance.com to see how tyres compare. The measurements are comparable if not exactly the numbers you might measure out in the wild. I have used it as a guide and my experience has given me confidence in what this chap is doing.

If you are interested in drop bar conversions that are a bit more modern gear on old frame then read on.....

If you decide to go for lots of gears and Sram flappy paddle brake shifters i can confirm the following work very well:-

10 speed Rival or Apex levers. *

*The 10 speed ratchet drum thing can be easily modded if you want 11 speeds. You just need to dremel and file a 10th indent.
Also you can mount the ratchet drum on some machined bar, with a screw to hold it in place, then put in a lathe chuck, or chuck on a pillar drill/mill bed and do some passes with a bit of tool steel ground to the right profile, to make the extra indent.

10 speed X9 medium cage or X0 short cage rear mech(exact actuation with clutch)

2x10 X9 top pull front mech(42t cage) **

** i am going to try a Sram XX 2x10 mech as these go up to a 45t . The above 42t front cage was a good fit to 52t ring but the cage is a little short for the ring combos and a 13t at the back. I think the old XX has a longer cage so that could improve things. The bigger attraction is the cable pinch bolt set up being alot better than the X9, which is cr@p. Hopefully the XX cage swing will match the cable pull, but it is cheap enough to experiment.

52/36 52/33 50/34 50/33 Sram 10 or 11 speed chainrings(the 33 is a T.A.)

As far as cassettes and chains go i have found 11 speed cassettes and chains to shift cleaner than 10 speed items, with the 10 speed levers. Just delete a sprocket. I have used Shimano cassettes as there are way more options and KMC chains as they are plentiful and cheap. The x11 is very good.

When i was using the medium cage X9 i was also using a dropout thingy to lower the mech. With that and Altus jockey wheels(much larger than the standard so the cage can take up more chain) i was able to stretch the whole setup to 52/33 front and 13-42, at the back. It all shifted just tickety-boo. Chain was pretty long but no slapping with the clutch'd mech.
It was all done for a bit of fun to see how far things can be pushed and how much nonsense there is from manufacturers about capacity.
I got all of that out of my system and am now running 50/34 and a shimano 14-28 junior cassette(deleted the 20t) and it has given alot of trouble free miles, with the X0 rear mech. I have one of the larger Altus jockeys in the bottom as you get a couple more links wrapped. I Might drop the 23-25-28 carrier and just start with 24 and then have 21 down to 13 as not using the 28 and 30mph is too far the wrong side of 100rpm with 50-14, on 26x2.2 .
Another option is a 46t chainring and 24-21-19 and down to a 12t There is also the Praxxis 48/32 sub compact setup, in 110bcd, and a 5 arm 110bcd spider just needs machining down so the chain clears the 32. Then one could go back to the 13t.....and so on and so on and ....."nurse!....more phene please".

Crank used through all of this is a cheapo XD2 110bcd double. It works but the arms are super flexy. Could be alot better and will be replaced with something stiffer. The square taper BB is stiff as you like.... it is the arms that can bend into the chainstay by 2-3mm so avoid this chainset if you have minimal clearance. The RD2 is probably better as it isnt a 'hidden bolt' crank, so at least the drive side arm is beefier, at the spider.

Campag 9 speed brifters also shift the above mechs very well on 10 speed cassettes. Just delete a cog, or set the stop screw.

I had Frogleggs cantis, when i had the campag levers, and they worked very well, with some old Aztec blocks. Sram levers are way more bendy and didn't work as well with the Fogleggs. I changed to some old shimano short arm cantis and, with swissstop BXP pads, the braking is brilliant. Really, really so. Got some old XTR on the way, as a little treat.

As with anything, your experience may be different. I am not a doctor, but my patient seems happy and has not had a breakdown.
 
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On the rolling resistance one, road rims are far narrower and so a 25mm tyre profile is more rounded and less stretched. I tried 1" on M231 rims and the ride was horribly harsh and no faster. Even on road bikes 28mm is lower resistance now than 23 - tyre construction has come on a long way recently. In UK conditions with rougher tarmac than continental roads I think fatter tyres pay back even more. The 1.5" Schwalbe Marathon Greenguards are the best I've run overall. The Supremes are good (I run the 2" one) but much more sensitive to tyre pressure - very boggy when too soft.
 
On the rolling resistance one, road rims are far narrower and so a 25mm tyre profile is more rounded and less stretched. I tried 1" on M231 rims and the ride was horribly harsh and no faster. Even on road bikes 28mm is lower resistance now than 23 - tyre construction has come on a long way recently. In UK conditions with rougher tarmac than continental roads I think fatter tyres pay back even more. The 1.5" Schwalbe Marathon Greenguards are the best I've run overall. The Supremes are good (I run the 2" one) but much more sensitive to tyre pressure - very boggy when too soft.
I was a bit nonplussed by the rolling resistance comments and ones re. Jacking tyre psi right up to compensate on this thread and my coast to coast one, having read a few articles like this one over recent years:


Either way, looking forward to how this one comes out, with obvious vested interest!
 
It's complex and not completely understood - much of the difference is down to the road surface. A small contact patch gives lower rolling resistance. At the same pressure, wider tyres have a rounder contact patch, which means less deformation of the tyre carcass and lower resistance.

HOWEVER, you also get the vibration / buzz / bouncing effect when the tyre hits road imperfections (or indeed the larger chipping size used in the UK). This also causes losses - not least by bouncing the rider around. As a result, what's fast on smooth tarry tarmac in Italy may be slower on a high-friction surface in the Pennines.

I think it all comes down to 'suck it and see'. Certainly for me, a 1.5" Schwalbe Marathon has proved faster, more comfortable and versatile than a 1.3" slick on a 26" wheel tourer. ON my road bike, 28mm is faster than 23, in fact I sold my Litespeed road bike (which had close clearances) in favour of a 1979 531 frame which could take 28mm and was faster over mixed country as a result.
 
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