Car Scrappage ... a rant.

I hate to get a little political, but what's the consensus here on car scrappage?

The Germans did it and it worked a treat. New cars started flying out the door. The Americans joined the party (but in the small print slipped some protectionist measures under the radar, then their car makers went bankrupt), the Japanese are all for it and the UK have stepped up as well.

So, let me get this straight: you want me to borrow money to buy a car that's 10% more efficient than the one I'm scrapping because it's good for the environment? What utter rot. What about the environmental cost of building a new car, or disposing of the old? Ok, so some parts can be recycled, but, guess what ... at an environmental cost!

And don't get me started on the second hand car dealers; killed the market in Germany by all accounts (maybe there is local knowledge on here?) and bound to do the same everywhere else.

BUT nothing, NOTHING on that whole storyline so far got my goat as much as this

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=19961

Midget, MGB, X1/9 .... all scrapped.

I'm off for a cup of tea and a sit down ....

Theres a workaround
Convert the engine to gas

dyna-ti":bhcc5fds said:

Theres a workaround
Convert the engine to gas

Click to expand...

Interesting you say that - I watched a programme on discovery turbo out here that showed a company in the US take a car (I can't remember the model, but it was something American and 70s), rip out the engine and attach an electric motor instead.

I don't think electric cars are ready for long distance yet, but a proper mini with a bunch of batteries in the boot would be a fantastic around-town car. Range of 80 miles would be fine.

You need a garage, or at least off-street parking, for charging, though.

If this service (swapping out a petrol engine for an electric one) existed at a reasonable price, I would be very tempted to use it.

Or, have one of these http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html

The unpalatable truth is from a resources point of view it's completely unfeasable to have one person using a vehicle that weighs 20 times what they do and has a top speed of 120 mph. Even with electric vehicles there's still a massive environmental impact, as the resources to make the batteries and dispose of them at the end of their life is unbelievable. And that's before you've even generated the electricity to charge these batteries. Electric vehicles with the performance of cars are ultimately a non-starter.

Companies like Ford and GM could have revolutionised the world if they'd been working on technologies like electric motors, but instead they chose to continue making inefficient, dirty vehicles that no-one with an ounce of foresight wants to buy. So while I feel sorry for everyone involved, I for one am glad these car companies are going out of business. Scrappage schemes won't help them, because their business model is always going to fail.

People still laugh at them now, but I follow the development of electric assist HPVs with interest. You can have motorised personal transport which keeps you dry, but not without putting in a bit of effort yourself and not above 20mph or so. It's a shame we can't get around the image of the Sinclair C5, but I honestly believe it's going to be that in conjunction with a mass transit system, or walking.

who cares , they were trade ins were they not ? owners didnt care so why should i ? just metal at the end of the day

plenty of model Ts have been given back to the earth and if they were kept on the road maybe there would be one or two more trees . people easily forget the electricity coming out of the wall isnt magically made by elves living in the cavity . theres a big power station at the other end of the cable

im sick of this guilt trip were given at the moment . ive turned a light on , oh my god wont someone please think of the children were condemning to a mad max apocalyptic future in a few short years

people wont go back to walking , they are too lazy to walk to the other side of the room to change the channel on the propaganda machine as it is

My rant isn't pro-electric vehicles - I'm not exactly an environmentalist myself.

I suppose it's more aimed at the futility of selling the idea that it's better to replace new for old in the name of the environment (and in the process score some cheap political by looking green).

Kestonian":3mamsul7 said:

I suppose it's more aimed at the futility of selling the idea that it's better to replace new for old in the name of the environment (and in the process score some cheap political by looking green).

Click to expand...

Is anyone seeing it as a green step though? Even though it has the green label on it you'd have to be pretty dumb to believe it, no?

Tales of the scheme so far has seen a colleague's dad try to buy a new car before and after the scheme and noticed a price hike from Citroen and Ford.

Perry, while I grant you the whinging greens do a great disservice to their cause by constantly reminding us how we're doomed to some dystopian future, the fact remains we can't continue consuming resources at the rate we are currently.

This is particularly true with items like cars, that consume far more resources than they need to. Giving £2000 towards a "green, energy efficient car", to make everything better? Give over.

Our choice is simple. We change now through our own volition and suffer a lot of discomfort, or we are forced to change in the future and suffer a great deal more discomfort.

think of the environmental impact of ceasing the production of a 'new' car altogether - think of all the resources saved etc.

Jobs? My GF's friend works for Nissan in Sunderland, earns about £30,000 doing very little and has about 6 weeks holiday and gets any nissan with a huge discount (he drives a Saab...!).

Theres some 30,000,000 cars registered on the road, we dont really need anymore do we?

my point is its not the good decent people like yourself chris living with only what you need . its the iron fisted oppressors we call a government ( i cant remember , did we vote brown in ? ) telling us we are ruining the world with a size 20 " carbon footprint " through the 24 hour news

how to control the masses lesson one - make them uneasy by telling them everything they own is worthless if it isnt under a day old , any older and its only worth throwing into the street where it will be taken away ready for you to buy more . buy more you must buy more , spend your life workng so you can buy more stufffffff

its not the stuffs fault , i own a car but im not tied to it . i rode 30 miles yesterday taking 2 hours , sure i couldave taken the car in a fraction of the time but i didnt . i didnt feel i had to .

its not the stuff bought at the consumer level . its the stupid consumers being led into thinking they need stuff

i think of it like owning a hose that is long and flowing with water . you get a load of people at the end and tell them that it would make them feel better if they collected the flowing water into red buckets . they like the red buckets and all is well . that is of course until you show them the yellow buckets , you tell someone that the yellow buckets are awesome , the red buckets pale in comparison . if you want a yellow bucket however you have to collect more water in the red buckets than whoever is stood next to you . of course the people do this , after all the red buckets are nowhere near as good as the yellow . they were told that and why question it ? all is well with the yellow buckets but the discarded red buckets are taking up space so you offer to take those away . for a cost of course , just fill more yellow buckets full of water . your people are too busy to look around at your wicked garden as they are stuck in the monotony of filling the yellow buckets and someone has heard there might be a green bucket . the water doesnt stop flowing so nobody looks to see where it goes , they are all too busy trying to beat the guy stood next to them . just dont tell the guy holding the tap open or the other guy spraying buckets you wont be letting them play in your big fat pool

i dont think you will ever be able to convince people to be content with what they have . why have cotton when youve been wiping your arse with silk for so long after all