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 Post subject: Re: Why don't they
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:58 am 
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tintin40 wrote:
Ever paint ti frames? Raligh did it too some cheap ti frames a long time ago (not aircraft grade ti). I like painted frames. Or does paint have trouble sticking to it?


Historically speaking paint is primarily for corrosion protection and not to look good, but does have the added bonus that it covers flaws in the material and construction.

Ti frames are fairly resistant to corrosion and their welds end up being neat due to the process involved hence why add extra cost and weight to the finished product?

Similarly on carbon frames a decorative weave is put over the top of all the other layers to cover the ugly joins (in some cases) and different weave directions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:36 pm 
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As an extreme example, the first two flights of space shuttle had a white external fuel tank, looked very spiffy and all. Later they left it orange and saved money for paint, labor, but most importantly, 1000 lbs (450 kg) of weight. So they're right, paint ain't light.

Pinguwin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:40 pm 
Mr Benn
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Yup, Seven, Indy Fab, Litespeed, seen all of them with paint. Gotta say, looks quite cool having just a stay or a small section bare ti peeking out from under the paint. Kind of subtle boating if you know what i mean.

But I do like that you can ride a ti frame round conditions like MM yesterday and it comes out unmarked. Don't know if I could bear to put Mrs Wu's DeKerf through that torture.

:shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:03 pm 
King of the DuckBoard
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Having said i like painted frames. All the naked carbon parts on my frames look better unpainted. And if i could get a 2007 Trimble (more chance of winning the lotto) then it would be un-painted. Well one would be painted and one wouldn't. :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:30 pm 
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Reasons not to paint:

1. extra cost for no enhancement in material functionality
2. fashion changes - customer may reject colour or aesthetic, therefore an even bigger waste of money
3. added value to customer of purchasing a titanium frame maybe the kudos of showing off to fellow humans, who will not notice the customer is riding a titanium frame if the colour is not titanium

Also on the process costs of titanium production - titanium has to be welded in an inert environment (no oxygen or hydrogen) otherwise the welds will be brittle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:55 pm 
King of the DuckBoard
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Painting certainly helped sell tons loads of Kleins


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:25 pm 
B.o.T.M. Winner / Feature Bike
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Quote:
This was a common rumour at the time but it wasn't true. Raleigh's Titanium frames were cheaper because they were bonded


Only the Dynatechs were bonded, they also made a Russian Ti frame that was welded called the Torus - some of these were painted (mainly the team type bikes to show off the team/sponsor colours). Most of raleighs bikes were made of rolled and welded tubes as were a large number of other Ti bikes at the time - no bad thing as it did reduce costs and didn't look bad after a bout of bead blasting

I would never have a painted Ti bike myself, I love the fact that they look fresh after 10 years and aren't so suceptable to changes in fashion like paint (put my old 7 colour neon fade Cinelli mountain bike against my Fat Ti and tell me which looks the most modern!), but I also love the fact that a really good ti bike has such nice welds that you want to show them off not hide them.

Personally I have always thought that paint looks best on a fillet brazed steel bike with beautiful flowing joints - makes the paint look fluid, Ali bikes should be anodised and Ti and Carbon should be naked


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:58 pm 
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You're right about the Torus, can feel the weld on the inside of the seat tube

Naked aluminium is susceptable to corrosion if the protective oxide surface is warn off and doesn't have chance to reform, which is probably the case in mountain biking conditions. Hence aluminium is painted or anodised (which increases the thickness of the oxide layer).

I admired designers who manage to come up with a colour scheme which is timeless and highly desired by customers, but I bet Klein had a few clangers.

The polymer in carbon fibre, I believe, is subject to discolouration in UV light, bare bits on my Giant have gone a funny colour. Also painting carbon stops people from asking why you are riding a fishing rob, which happened a lot to me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:15 am 
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tintin40 wrote:
Painting certainly helped sell tons loads of Kleins


Yes but people soon noticed that they were "a little bit crap" when it came to the ride (and yes I do have one).


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