Seller Beware

wiggviv

Retro Guru
FatalSwan you have covered all angles here thanks for all response on this, I'll put it down as a loss unless he does pay as promised - too complicated to chase up through the Ebay process. I will be more careful and as mentioned all sales will be collection only.....or through Facebook pages and RB face to face. I never had a love for the Bear Valley maybe this was an omen the parcel delivery even went wrong....
time to ride my Muirwoods.
 

Tsundere

Retro Guru
I just would like to say I bought a bike from you Wiggviv, and the sale experience was very pleasant, the bike arrived well packaged and on time, but the description clearly stated ready to ride condition and the bike was completely unrideable due to the centre chain ring being worn to destruction.

I was furious at first, but in the end I decided against going for a refund, which in some respects I now regret, and instead tried to identify and fix the issue. Ultimately I have been forced to sell it on, probably for a small loss but I am at least telling potential buyers about the gear slipping centre ring problems, and so my conscience is clear.

You complain about buyers but I tell you this, with all due respect, you shouldn't be throwing any stones at anyone my friend.
 

Fatal Swan

Senior Retro Guru
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I think this post illustrates the point well. Condition is subjective, especially if vague descriptions are used for the overall bike rather than detailed descriptions of the parts. To some people, "ready to ride" as a description of a used bike - and especially one of some age like many on RB - might mean that it's basically in serviceable order mechanically; to others it will mean that every gear clicks perfectly, the wheels are absolutely true and smooth, there are no parts looking in shabby condition, etc. Some people might say one worn chainring is no big deal if that's the only issue with a used bike of some age, while others will get angry about it not being what they thought they were paying for. I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong and there's no point judging since I don't know either what was advertised or what was received, but it illustrates how different people can have different expectations which mean they interpret the same words differently.

A while back I bought a modern Klein on ebay. The condition was not brilliantly described, something like "generally very good" etc, and if it had been it would have been a good price. I'm not sure I'd have bought it without the safety net of the ebay return policy in the first place though. When it arrived although it was 'rideable' in some sense, the Death Grip tyres had perished badly, the disc brake pads were worn through, the rotors weren't true and needed replacing, the shock had an oil leak and the drivetrain was plenty worn. Any one of those issues I could really have lived with, but with them all together, overall it was just not the deal I'd expected it to be and if the listing had described those issues instead of "generally very good" or whatever it was, I certainly wouldn't have bought it at the price I paid. I didn't really have to think twice to open an ebay dispute to get a refund on it while the seller was of course disgruntled (made a comment along the lines of "it's an old used bike, what did you expect?") and probably genuinely felt like I was being unreasonable. But the customer is always right on ebay.
 

d8mok

Gold Trader
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I’d never describe a used bike as refurbished unless it had undergone a full refurb to new standard. I see it quite a bit recently and they are simply used bikes which the seller has spit and polished.

Always under promise on eBay in terms of condition. I’d rather not sell a item as I’ve been overly harsh on the description rather than sell it and deal with issues.
 
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MartinYorkshire

Retro Guru
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I wouldn't automatically conclude it's a scam. Some people literally are so utterly dumb as to think "refurbished" fits Apples definition of refurbished, in other words, it's brand new with warranty and been professional cleaned, with no visible wear at all.

The question however, is why he is demanding a full refund for simple play in the bottom bracket, if his claim has any merit at all. Replacing/repairing the CONSUMABLE item would be a reasonable request, possibly, but demanding a full refund, not sure.

It sounds more like a case of covid feet to me.

I agree with Fatal Swan in that Paypal and eBay generally side with the buyer, so do proceed with caution.
 

Woz

Old School Grand Master
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I’d never describe a used bike as refurbished unless it had undergone a full refurb to new standard. I see it quite a bit recently and they are simply used bikes which the seller has spit and polished.

Always under promise on eBay in terms of condition. I’d rather not sell a item as I’ve been overly harsh on the description rather than sell it and deal with issues.

+1 There is no point in trying to over market used things with written descriptions. The photographs should do all the talking.
 

MartinYorkshire

Retro Guru
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+1 There is no point in trying to over market used things with written descriptions. The photographs should do all the talking.

Seller Refurbished is unquantifiable and ebay know it. Because of this, you'd think it was a "buyer beware" situation, but in reality probably isn't.

Regardless, with the changes ebay is making, private sellers would be wise to stop using it anyway, which as I've said before, is a goal I think they have had for the last decade. They want to be Amazon, but of course, never will be as they are simply too far behind. Amazon got there first, have the best logistics setup in the developed world, commercial web services almost entirely sewn up and a host of other advantages.
 
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