Scottish IndepenDENce YES or NO?

[Chapeau! Velo]

Re: Re:

Democracy is no guarantee of fairness and the rich and powerful will always try to manipulate it to their own advantage.

All I am saying is that as a means of dispute resolution, democracy is favorable to all forms of political violence.

Cameron is someone who, despite the rhetoric, puts party advantage above what is best for Britain as a whole. And having realised that he must lose power over Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, he is maneuvering to strengthen Conservative influence in England.

In other words, he is prepared to weaken the Union as long as that consolidates Conservative rule in England. And needs to get these changes through Parliament quickly in case he loses the general election.

Interesting, the same could also be said of Labour's motivation for trying to kick the English votes question into the long grass! It doesn't take a Mensa member to notice that we are increasingly becoming more of a country of 2 halves; the vast majority of the South tend to vote Conservative (except some parts of London) and also have to live with a government that they never voted for every time Labour win an election, so a lot of the South have complete sympathy with Scotland!

 

[videojetman]

At least you got your answer, move on.

 

[technodup]

What happened was underhand and should result in a re-run.

:roll:

Sovereign and settled will of the Scottish people. Remember that? You should, Salmond said it often enough. Strange it doesn't seem to apply when the wrong answer came back.

 

[secret_squirrel]

It was clear interference in the democratic process.

By whom? I'm baffled by who you think stuck their oar in who wasn't entitled to. UK politicians were, private individuals with more money than sense were. World leaders impacted by a UK breakup were. Most of them didn't have a vote - all of them were perfectly entitled to share their opinions and join the campaigns.

Democracy isn't defined as something you keep rerunning until you get the result you want.

If you feel hard done by try living in Quebec.

 

[highlandsflyer]

Re:

I don't feel hard done by at all. We were content with the idea of devo-max, so depending on what happens now things may be perfectly fine for our wants. We shall see.

As far as 'moving on', not a chance. Over 80% of the Scottish electorate voted in this referendum, and YES missed out by only a half dozen percent. Given that many postal voters have said they would have changed their votes from NO given the chance there is every reason to believe we can move on to a win next time, especially as we shed some of those older NO voters.

One thing is certain, we have moved on to a new generation of politically savvy youth in Scotland. They won't accept the humdrum voter apathy led monochrome political scene of the south.

 

[rosstheboss]

Re: Re:

Over 80% of the Scottish electorate voted in this referendum, and YES missed out by only a half dozen percent.

That's one way of looking at it.

Another way is that Yes lost by 10.6%

Another way is that 55.3% voted no

Whatever way, Yes lost and another referendum is miles off.

As for the youth vote, why would they all vote Yes? Maybe the youth vote will have grown up a bit 'next time' and have a less willful viewpoint, assuming, like you do, that all the youngsters voted yes.

 

[technodup]

Re: Re:

As far as 'moving on', not a chance. Over 80% of the Scottish electorate voted in this referendum, and YES missed out by only a half dozen percent. Given that many postal voters have said they would have changed their votes from NO given the chance there is every reason to believe we can move on to a win next time, especially as we shed some of those older NO voters.

Over 10% ahead.
Nearly half a million votes ahead (in a country of 5m).
28/32 areas voted no.
Salmond resigned.

This was a comprehensive win. And can we stop perpetuating the myths about postal voters changing their mind- there's no numbers. Likewise the myth about old/young, those youngsters will get older, have families and jobs and savings and will be more likely to vote to protect them next time. And in any case the according to Ashcroft the 16-24 vote was only 51% Yes in any case.

The only number that matter are the views of the 55. Like it or not that's the facts. If the result was reversed the Yes camp wouldn't be entertaining a movement to rejoin the union, and neither will we with another referendum.

Latest update on Blair Jenkins: still smarting, hasn't taken down his Yes posters yet. Nugget. It's over.

 

[rosstheboss]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng- ... ts-in-full

The map tells a story, and so does the right hand column, where generally speaking, the higher the turn out, the bigger the No vote.

 

[technodup]

Don't you go confusing them with facts now.

If Cameron gives a fig leaf to Scotland and sorts the West Lothian question, decimating Labour and allowing Tories to act like Tories then it's a win/win for me.

Let Sheridan and the rest play conspiracy theories if they like, the silent majority have spoken.

 

[videojetman]

some people can't take no for an answer.
even your own poll voted no, how many of them were postal votes ?