FINNEY1973
Senior Retro Guru
Welcome to the road 
i'll look out for your thread, hope your beady eyes have spotted a beauty!
i'll look out for your thread, hope your beady eyes have spotted a beauty!
Poyner - oh wait - Harry Quinn
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Late to the party but that's very very nice indeed. Poyner were one of my regular local shops at the end of the eighties into the nineties, I wonder if they were responsible for the eighties spruce up and that's how it ended up in their colours. Know they were well respected frame builders locally and added canti bosses to a 501 road frame for me to race schoolboy 'cross on way back when...
FINNEY1973
Senior Retro Guru
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Poyner must of done a re-furb (the decals where under the lacquer). Small world that you have used the Poyner shop!
Just looking at the thread & remembering how many hours I spent doing this bike! It's off for a pro paint job later in the year - not happy with my attempt and it needs 40cm bars - the 38's on it are too narrow for me. Oh and some proper pedals! :facepalm:
Just looking at the thread & remembering how many hours I spent doing this bike! It's off for a pro paint job later in the year - not happy with my attempt and it needs 40cm bars - the 38's on it are too narrow for me. Oh and some proper pedals! :facepalm:
torqueless
Senior Retro Guru
Re:
Not quite sure how I missed this one back in July?
Just to offer some constructive criticism on what is otherwise a great looking bike, to my eye the 'Harry Quinn' decal is a touch too high on the seat-tube, and a bit too low on the down-tube, by 'traditional' standards. My rule-of-thumb for the down-tube is: Draw an imaginary line from the front hub to the pinch-bolt on the seat-lug. The line should bisect the name on the downtube- go through the mid-point of it. Juggle it around in that area until it looks right. I've no idea if that rule has any validity, or history- it just an empirical observation which to me, seems to work.
Also, one of the photos makes me wonder if your back rim is centred- I'm aware of the brake-centring issue, but it looks like the tyre is not directly under the brake-bolt? Might just be the photo..
Great bike nonetheless..
Not quite sure how I missed this one back in July?
Just to offer some constructive criticism on what is otherwise a great looking bike, to my eye the 'Harry Quinn' decal is a touch too high on the seat-tube, and a bit too low on the down-tube, by 'traditional' standards. My rule-of-thumb for the down-tube is: Draw an imaginary line from the front hub to the pinch-bolt on the seat-lug. The line should bisect the name on the downtube- go through the mid-point of it. Juggle it around in that area until it looks right. I've no idea if that rule has any validity, or history- it just an empirical observation which to me, seems to work.
Also, one of the photos makes me wonder if your back rim is centred- I'm aware of the brake-centring issue, but it looks like the tyre is not directly under the brake-bolt? Might just be the photo..
Great bike nonetheless..
FINNEY1973
Senior Retro Guru
Constructive criticism is always welcome Torqueless, it's how we learn to get things right - which I clearly didn't when it came to placing the decals :facepalm: Before I posted the finished pics on here I sent them to a mate who has 3 original Quinns and told him i'd stuffed up with the decals. He politely said, oh it's not far off, non-one will pay too much attention to that. It's been annoying ever since. The Reynolds decals are also badly placed - too close to the seat cluster and not low enough down on the forks - I think it would look better lined up with the wheel-rim.
I've not heard of the diagonal line as a means of getting the decal location correct. I'll need to do that so I can obtain some measurements so I can tell the paintshop where to locate them.
That's a keen eye you have - stood with brew in hand this morning and yes you are 100% correct, the wheel is a fraction off centre - perhaps 5mm. Does that mean i'm into the realms of re-spacing & dishing the wheel?
Thanks for the input & observations, everyday is a school day as they say
I've not heard of the diagonal line as a means of getting the decal location correct. I'll need to do that so I can obtain some measurements so I can tell the paintshop where to locate them.
That's a keen eye you have - stood with brew in hand this morning and yes you are 100% correct, the wheel is a fraction off centre - perhaps 5mm. Does that mean i'm into the realms of re-spacing & dishing the wheel?
Thanks for the input & observations, everyday is a school day as they say
torqueless
Senior Retro Guru
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No, I never heard of the diagonal line thing either- I invented it, after looking at bikes that seemed to have their names in the 'right' place and trying to work out why.. Try it on your pic. of your bike at top of thread in it's Poyner finish, or on Hillwalker's Quinn, for example. I'm not saying it's the rule, it's just the best I can come up with. You may come up with a better one. I guess there must be aesthetic rules for the placement of seat-tube and other decals as well, either learnt, or intuited, by people in the trade who do this professionally. Nothing wrong with breaking the rules, either, IMO, but if you do, it helps to know you are breaking them and have a justification...
Anyway, the fact that you confessed your misgivings to your mate reveals that you are sensitive to this placement as well...
My (unsolicited
) advice to anyone who is repainting a frame with thin-walled tubes is to either do it yourself, or take it to someone (you know the names) who, you can be sure, understands bike-tubing. Gaspipe and such can stand up for itself at the blasters/powder coaters, ageing DB might need a lot more care, especially if you don't know how many times it may have undergone the refinishing process already.
Regarding the rear wheel, I think the rim needs to move over to the non-drive-side, yes? Assuming your frame hasn't been 'sprung' to take a hub with longer OLN, if your chainline is good, and your smallest cog is pretty much next to the dropout, (with just enough room to shift the chain onto and off of it) that is ideal.
In that case I would slacken off all the drive-side spokes a quarter-turn, and then tighten all the non-drive-side a quarter-turn. Keep doing that until the rim is centred. But you need to stop if you run out of spoke-thread on the non-drive-side (nipples will turn no further), or start exposing spoke-thread beyond the nipples on the drive-side. If it can be done, it should end up a stronger wheel with a bit less dish, as a bonus.
That's the easy way. to be really thorough you have to get the block off and the tub off, I guess... sooner you than me..
No, I never heard of the diagonal line thing either- I invented it, after looking at bikes that seemed to have their names in the 'right' place and trying to work out why.. Try it on your pic. of your bike at top of thread in it's Poyner finish, or on Hillwalker's Quinn, for example. I'm not saying it's the rule, it's just the best I can come up with. You may come up with a better one. I guess there must be aesthetic rules for the placement of seat-tube and other decals as well, either learnt, or intuited, by people in the trade who do this professionally. Nothing wrong with breaking the rules, either, IMO, but if you do, it helps to know you are breaking them and have a justification...
Anyway, the fact that you confessed your misgivings to your mate reveals that you are sensitive to this placement as well...
My (unsolicited
) advice to anyone who is repainting a frame with thin-walled tubes is to either do it yourself, or take it to someone (you know the names) who, you can be sure, understands bike-tubing. Gaspipe and such can stand up for itself at the blasters/powder coaters, ageing DB might need a lot more care, especially if you don't know how many times it may have undergone the refinishing process already.Regarding the rear wheel, I think the rim needs to move over to the non-drive-side, yes? Assuming your frame hasn't been 'sprung' to take a hub with longer OLN, if your chainline is good, and your smallest cog is pretty much next to the dropout, (with just enough room to shift the chain onto and off of it) that is ideal.
In that case I would slacken off all the drive-side spokes a quarter-turn, and then tighten all the non-drive-side a quarter-turn. Keep doing that until the rim is centred. But you need to stop if you run out of spoke-thread on the non-drive-side (nipples will turn no further), or start exposing spoke-thread beyond the nipples on the drive-side. If it can be done, it should end up a stronger wheel with a bit less dish, as a bonus.
That's the easy way. to be really thorough you have to get the block off and the tub off, I guess... sooner you than me..
FINNEY1973
Senior Retro Guru
Well i'll be using 'other' images of Quinn's in un-restored state to assess the original positioning, but your point of using the unrstored Poyner image shows the position with the imaginary line - so on this basis i'm hopeful I can come up with the correct measurements for the paint company of choice (undecided as yet).
Indeed, the rear does require tracking over to the non drive side. Frame is measured at 126 with equivalent hub. I can only make the judgement that it is meant to be 126 and wasn't altered somewhere in its history? The frame was made somewhere between '72 & '75. The 13T cog is in my opinion too close to the seat-stay, but we are talking a small discrepancy, not so much as to cause contact between chain & seatstay. I think it needs 3mm to centre the wheel to the frame correctly. I will certainly be trying it the easy way, with the points noted about exposing spoke threads etc.
As for a 57T ring, it would look the part, I'm not sure I would though attempting to keep 115 gear inches going!!
Indeed, the rear does require tracking over to the non drive side. Frame is measured at 126 with equivalent hub. I can only make the judgement that it is meant to be 126 and wasn't altered somewhere in its history? The frame was made somewhere between '72 & '75. The 13T cog is in my opinion too close to the seat-stay, but we are talking a small discrepancy, not so much as to cause contact between chain & seatstay. I think it needs 3mm to centre the wheel to the frame correctly. I will certainly be trying it the easy way, with the points noted about exposing spoke threads etc.
As for a 57T ring, it would look the part, I'm not sure I would though attempting to keep 115 gear inches going!!
Midlife
Retro Wizard
Arrgh...decals !
Way back when it was one of my jobs to stick decals on resprayed frames....nightmare
I won't go into it but for the downtube we took where the chainring ended as one marker and put the decals (transfers) halfway between the chainring and the top tube. That way when the bike was viewed from the drive side the decals were balanced. We took the same view on the seat tube with the panel / decals being half way between where the top of the chainring ended and the seat cluster.
As time went on (in the 1970's) the trend was for the decals to creep more towards the head tube and more towards the seat cluster. Maybe the decals were more visible on pictures.
Shaun
Way back when it was one of my jobs to stick decals on resprayed frames....nightmare
I won't go into it but for the downtube we took where the chainring ended as one marker and put the decals (transfers) halfway between the chainring and the top tube. That way when the bike was viewed from the drive side the decals were balanced. We took the same view on the seat tube with the panel / decals being half way between where the top of the chainring ended and the seat cluster.
As time went on (in the 1970's) the trend was for the decals to creep more towards the head tube and more towards the seat cluster. Maybe the decals were more visible on pictures.
Shaun
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Nailbiting stuff Shaun, rather you than me!
Just a thought, but if the 13t is uncomfortably close to the dropout as it is, maybe try moving a small spacer from non- to driveside? Even just a 2mm difference each side might be enough to settle the brake set up without upsetting the chainline ... if you're lucky!
And good work spotting that torque less :shock:
Nailbiting stuff Shaun, rather you than me!
Just a thought, but if the 13t is uncomfortably close to the dropout as it is, maybe try moving a small spacer from non- to driveside? Even just a 2mm difference each side might be enough to settle the brake set up without upsetting the chainline ... if you're lucky!
And good work spotting that torque less :shock:
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