Why no suspension? I always assume, even for just general easy trails and non-tarmac routes it'd give a bit more of a comfy & compliant ride? - I think I've got a lot to learn
New to retro bikes, advice on sizing, upgrading etc please
- Thread starter Renevator
- Start date
Thanks Markybeau, good advice - especially as I'm prone to heart over head decisions. Bought a couple of motorcycles that way, and let one that was an absolute beaut go when I shouldn't have.
I'll definitely have a look at Kona & Marin, as you & everyone has recommended. Thanks.
7Speed
Retro Guru
I am exactly your height. I had one of the 1st Gen P7s BITD and I miss it a lot. It was an 18” frame I think with a 130mm stem. Matt black. Fit like a glove. I like a smaller frame you can throw about vs a larger frame that you can move about on (road bike style), so a bit bigger might not hurt. 21“ feels way to big for you though. I like a lot of seat to handlebar drop, just how I was brought up In my bike fits - but this is getting less as I get to 50!. The P7 had spring and whip in the frame and the F7 forks were a great match to the frame - direct and with lots of feel. I would see if you really need to swap the forks out. Guess it depends on your trails and of course - what makes you happyHi, thanks for accepting me to the forum.
I've inexplicably fallen for an Orange P7, but owners I guess will understand
I'm getting back into cycling after 35+ years off, and was originally looking at getting an Orange Clockwork 2014 ish era for general use, then I found a completely rebuilt P7 & started to think a retro bike would probably be so much more my thing. I just really like style of these bikes.
Anyway, I could do with some advice on sizing and general maintenance & upgrade possibilities.
I'm 5ft 9.5 inches, skinny, normal arm & leg length, age 64 (if all that matters).
I'm after a bike that can give me enormous pleasure in ownership & upgrading/personalising possibilities (I rekon anything retro would), and to ride on local roads, beaches, dunes, trails, bridelways etc - nothing at all strenuous or technincal - I ain't ever gonna be a proper mountain biker I'm afraid
So I've found 2 P7's. One is a 1997 completely rebuilt, marzocci forked, almost mint 21" frame (£695), and the other, same era, rigid fork, I think a 19" (The owner is just over 5'10" and he says it fits him perfect - £250 been stored for ages but mechanically good & reasonable nick).
I've not ridden any of them, obv need to, but they aren't close by, hence trying to get some advice.
The cheaper one seems a reasonable buy (summat I can upgrade/improve over time), but the larger one is completely sorted, and looks totally stunning - pricey though that's for sure.
My concern is that a lot of P7's of this era seem to have the seat set really high, giving the impression of a head down/arse up riding position
Is that normal for this era Orange P7 & other mtb's? If so, I may have to rethink, as I can't see this being enjoyable as an everyday do everything bike - I'm not 20 anymore unfortunately!.
I was therefore thinking, if I went for a much larger frame, I'd have more room to flatten the stance as it were, but obv would need to take into account stand over height/reach etc.
Or is that a totally stupid way to go?
On the maintenance side - there seem to be enough parts, consumables (tyres etc) around to continue using such a bike everyday, but are upgrade possibilities severely limited? - for instance, if I wanted to add suspension to the rigid forked P7 is that possible? or has it got to a stage where parts for upgrades are pretty rare.
Sorry for the long post - just trying to understand what I'm getting into, and if my thinking of using a retro mtb everyday is possible.
. welcome to RB.
bontybonty
Dirt Disciple
Hi
Your height suggests 18 inch frame
You could go 19 inch
I wouldn't go 16 inch as the low front
Is pretty unforgiving on retro bikes.
And the small frame will exaggerate that
They were made for 20yr old whippets
Not 60+ fossils.
My advice would be search for retro bike on ebay with nearest first selected.
Then take the plunge with something based on condition and proximity to you.
£250 or less will get you a functional starter bike. Even £150 might do it.
Then you can be patent for a better one.
And you will have a few miles behind you
To inform your next buy. Or swap the frame out.
Then sell the first. Alternatively don't sell it buy 15 more and keep them all.
Your height suggests 18 inch frame
You could go 19 inch
I wouldn't go 16 inch as the low front
Is pretty unforgiving on retro bikes.
And the small frame will exaggerate that
They were made for 20yr old whippets
Not 60+ fossils.
My advice would be search for retro bike on ebay with nearest first selected.
Then take the plunge with something based on condition and proximity to you.
£250 or less will get you a functional starter bike. Even £150 might do it.
Then you can be patent for a better one.
And you will have a few miles behind you
To inform your next buy. Or swap the frame out.
Then sell the first. Alternatively don't sell it buy 15 more and keep them all.
Ha ha!!!...I'm 64 so it's more a case of handlebar rise rather than dropI am exactly your height. I had one of the 1st Gen P7s BITD and I miss it a lot. It was an 18” frame I think with a 130mm stem. Matt black. Fit like a glove. I like a smaller frame you can throw about vs a larger frame that you can move about on (road bike style), so a bit bigger might not hurt. 21“ feels way to big for you though. I like a lot of seat to handlebar drop, just how I was brought up In my bike fits - but this is getting less as I get to 50!. The P7 had spring and whip in the frame and the F7 forks were a great match to the frame - direct and with lots of feel. I would see if you really need to swap the forks out. Guess it depends on your trails and of course - what makes you happy
. Actually maybe not that extreme. I simulated the 21" frame standover with a table & spirit level and 85 (which the ad specified) was way too much, so I've knocked that one on the head. Great to hear you experience of the P7's, and thanks for the welcome. Seems like a very helpful forum here.I'm not quite a fossil, though a weekend of digging out 30 yr old bushes & filling a skip with allsorts this weekend has made itself known
Yes, I've started all manner of searches for retro stuff, thanks for the price advice, that helps. I agree with your thoughts on the 16" frame, from what I can work out with dimensions on Orange's archive data, that'd be way too extreme for me.
Do look at the 95 ish rocky mountains...the dropped top tube takes a lot off the stand over....so you could get the benefit of 21" 170mm headtube and keep your wedding tackle in place if you bail out badly!
Just to give you an idea, im 6'4"....but my back means i now need the bars at least level with the saddle......
This is my 20.5" (21.5 c to t) 89 pine mountain marin tourer (180mm headtube).....bars 55mm above saddle now, but I can ride it all day.....and gladly often do! But the geometry puts the top tube higher up...as you can see from the seat post.
Just to give you an idea, im 6'4"....but my back means i now need the bars at least level with the saddle......
This is my 20.5" (21.5 c to t) 89 pine mountain marin tourer (180mm headtube).....bars 55mm above saddle now, but I can ride it all day.....and gladly often do! But the geometry puts the top tube higher up...as you can see from the seat post.
You ask only sensible questions, and you found everyone here.. this to me says you will be absolutely fine doing anything on retro bikes, they are not difficult to work on for anyone with a little base knowledge which it sounds like you have.Thanks for all the replies guys, some really helpful info there. Reassures me that I'm not too bonkers in thinking a retro bike would suit my needs.
Well, I'm not sure either of the bikes I was looking at will work. The 1997 refurbed one is 85cm standover, and I've mocked up a bar at home and I'm starting to get onto toes at 83cm so I think an 85 frame is just too big.
The other one turns out to be 16" frame, which I think is gonna be too small.
I'll start looking at Kona's and the pother brands you suggested - though it would be ideal to have a british made frame, but not a deal breaker of course. I can't expect to be that picky
As for servicing, I'm reasonably confident about that, having serviced & part rebuilt my motorcycles in the past. Just need to ensure I understand bicycle specifics with regard to all that. The more I think about it, the more I read all the interesting stuff here, the more I'm convinced owning & running a retro would be highly rewarding. Cheers.
I am 43 and have found my age and shape now better suited to bikes I would of found boring in my younger years.. more upright position, etc..
Frame size is important but as others have said look at frame length.. I have Kona's, which tend to be longer and lower in position, a Marin which is shorter, three Orange clockworks of differing kinds and sizes..
You will I think by the sounds of things, be looking at 19" frames, I would suggest it would be wise to look at retro but later retro with aheadset. If you google this it will make more sense than me describing, probably, if not do ask and I will find some pictures to explain.. older bikes with the old quill stems, its harder ( possible but not so simple ) to change stems and alter the handlebar position, with Ahead systems its dead easy and much more readily available.
As regards parts, I have not had any trouble with parts especially since ive been on here, and if its a concern you can gather up spares once you get more into it, which can mean you buying at a sensible price not being scalped out of desperation...!?!
Personally I think the quality and longevity of shimano kit from the nineties is far superior to anything made in recent years. regards Enigma
Oooh, that Rocky Mountain is a tasty looking think, I definitely need to gen up on those, don't know anything about them. Any particular models I should go for?
And very interesting you mentioned the Marin too, and how you ride that so much. I was reading a thread on here about what bike you SHOULD be riding (really fascinating and entertaining post). It got me thinking I'm maybe looking at the wrong sort of frame (Orange P7). Mind you, I'm no purist, so I'm happy to make a bike work for me regardless of what it SHOULD look like
These retro frames are just so lovely aren't they, and reading stuff on here confirms just how much fun and pride in ownership it's possible to get with them. My friend whose looking at getting a new electric mtb circa £8k is gonna have a fit when I tell him what I'm looking at Well thanks Enigma, that's very informative. I've learned a bit about stems now, just one of many things it's clear I need to understand. I can definitely see the advantage of Ahead stems - I guess I'll know by looking at a bike, but what sort of period are we talking with regard to the change from Quill & Ahead?
Thanks for the frame size suggestion - I've kinda come to the same conclusion by research, but obviously there are differences from manufacturer to manufacturer. I'll definitely need to gen up on frame length, get a better understanding of all the ratios.
This whole retro thing is quite fascinating. I started off just looking at getting a bog std 2014 ish mtb (Boardman/Trek etc) with a view to saving up for maybe something like a Sonder Broken Road, but I've got a feeling owning & building a retro to my liking will be far more rewarding.
This forum certainly helps - you guys have been incredibly helpful & informative, thank you.
I won't be a collector, like most here - it's a one bike only I'm afraid (it's going to live in my small log cabin workshop, which has to serve many diy/general maker needs). It's also going to be a motorcycle replacement (for a while, if not forever). Does me in to think I'll probably never be able to afford another motorcycle. They've always been an essential part of who I am, but I can see a great deal of enjoyment getting into the retro build & use.
I'm getting the impression that 90's bikes were somewhat of a special build quality time - is that so? Interesting, as I reckon motorcycles form that era were some of the best - at least my VFR750 RC36 was - truly fabulous japanese build quality. Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated.
