Lazy Commuters

[MikeD]

I'd be concerned about being stuck in traffic on a train

I like trains, I can get things done on them. Factor in my time and they can make some sort of economic sense, depending where I'm going. As soon as there's more than one person making a journey, though, they don't.

 

[Neil G]

It's always amazes me at school holiday times how empty the roads are.

F**k me, when I was a kid we used to ride/walk to school...I suppose there are so many peados, freaks etc around every corner now that people have to drive a mile up the road to school to drop their little angels off.

That school run traffic causes a lot of problems for commuters and I bet half of them could avoid using a car if they wanted to.

 

[MikeD]

The biggest danger to kids on their way to school is cars being used to ferry kids to school. It's mental around our local school in the morning. To be fair, a lot of people drop their kids off on the way to work because it'd be hard to walk back home and still get to work on time. But by no means all, I suspect that's a fairly small minority. And a lot of the driving is horrendous. There's someone who lives nearby who's had people not merely blocking her driveway in the morning but actually parking on it..

More positively, a lot of kids walk and a lot use bikes and scooters, which the school actively encourages.

 

[The Ken]

One of the main reasons more cars are used for taking the kids to school is that it is the norm now for both sets of parents to work, so when the kid is too young to walk to school they are driven so the parent has time to get to work afterwards. This creates a situation where the parent becomes used to driving the kids to school and as a result continues well after the kid is capable of the journey on their own.

This happened with my kids - added to the fact that they have 2 dangerous road crossings to make and the lollipop man is frequently absent from both (there are no traffic lights).

 

[Neil]

It's always amazes me at school holiday times how empty the roads are.

F**k me, when I was a kid we used to ride/walk to school...

Yup, me too.

And I think it's fair comment, that we were better off for doing so.

I suppose there are so many peados, freaks etc around every corner now that people have to drive a mile up the road to school to drop their little angels off.

As Mike says, below, I suspect they're more at risk from the cavalier disregard for road safety - ironically - by the school run crowd themselves, around school.

Not sure whether stats show there's some huge increase in the numbers of weirdos - we're probably just more aware of the incidents.

That school run traffic causes a lot of problems for commuters and I bet half of them could avoid using a car if they wanted to.

I certainly notice less traffic on the motorway when it's school holidays - and yes, I'd much prefer to be walking or cycling to work.

The biggest danger to kids on their way to school is cars being used to ferry kids to school. It's mental around our local school in the morning. To be fair, a lot of people drop their kids off on the way to work because it'd be hard to walk back home and still get to work on time. But by no means all, I suspect that's a fairly small minority. And a lot of the driving is horrendous. There's someone who lives nearby who's had people not merely blocking her driveway in the morning but actually parking on it..

Like you, I think there may be a small number who are on the way elsewhere, but I suspect most aren't.

And agreed on the standard of driving, the awful parking around schools, how odd and obsessive - and in some cases, downright aggressive - the driving behaviour gets for some, on the school run.

More positively, a lot of kids walk and a lot use bikes and scooters, which the school actively encourages.

I think as kids get older, they tend towards getting to school under their own steam.

And that is a much better proposition - a walk or bike ride before they get to school seems a perfect starter to the day, in terms of them being alert, awake, and having had some gentle exercise, and some fresh air.

I don't think it's a battle that's going to be won easily, though - nor do I think fuel costs are a valid approach to discouraging it - because for many, the distance is truly trivial, anything that would or could have a bearing would be financially crippling to many that have greater needs, and have to travel decent distances - never mind the effects on business (although they'd probably be exempted...)

 

[Neil]

One of the main reasons more cars are used for taking the kids to school is that it is the norm now for both sets of parents to work, so when the kid is too young to walk to school they are driven so the parent has time to get to work afterwards. This creates a situation where the parent becomes used to driving the kids to school and as a result continues well after the kid is capable of the journey on their own.

This happened with my kids - added to the fact that they have 2 dangerous road crossings to make and the lollipop man is frequently absent from both (there are no traffic lights).

I certainly see some parents, who drop off their kids at school, when they look to be on the way to work - but I see plenty who don't seem to be doing anything other than being purely lazy - I say this based on walking pest many on the way with my son, and passing their cars walking home again.

As much as the work thing, I think there's also the car ownership thing, and the consequence of the car being so much more prevalent in society - people jump in the cars to go ridiculously short journeys - say to the corner shop, or the booze shop - or even the supermarket, where in many cases, there's no need in terms of either the time involved, or what they'll be carrying on the way back.

I do agree that there's sheer laziness involved, and that people have become habitually dependent on using a car for anything more than about 10 feet.

When I was growing up (70s and 80s) both parents worked (albeit my mother worked part-time for a good few years until we were older), there was only one car in the family, which my dad needed to get to work. He left early in the morning (before we would set off for school) and got home a good couple of hours after we got home from school. So there was no option of being driven to school.

Walking was a normal, natural thing because many, perhaps most, families had no other real option. Looking back, I'm glad the times were so, and that my parents weren't "considerably richer than yoaow", because I think it was good for me to walk, and when I got older, find my own way and cycle - not only in what it did for me then, but in my outlook now.

 

[MikeD]

Not sure whether stats show there's some huge increase in the numbers of weirdos

There were some stats somewhere showing essentially no increase in child abductions (for whatever reason) in the last 50 years. It's a minuscule risk anyway, down there with being struck by lightning.

It also strikes me (and this isn't in response to anything in particular, it just strikes me ) that fuel costs, high as they are, aren't necessarily all that big a deal compared to running costs generally. If you've bought a newish car that's depreciating rapidly, have it serviced at a dealer, insured it and taxed it, it's costing loads just sitting there. The actual marginal cost of extra journeys is not all that great.

In fact I'm sure someone's worked out that running a car is actually as cheap as it's ever been, taking everything into account. Hang on...

...pages 35 and 36:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/da ... n2ptbm.pdf

 

[Neil]

Not sure whether stats show there's some huge increase in the numbers of weirdos

There were some stats somewhere showing essentially no increase in child abductions (for whatever reason) in the last 50 years. It's a minuscule risk anyway, down there with being struck by lightning.

Agreed - you talk - or here people talking, and you'd think there was a monster around every corner, but I very much suspect it's a case of society being much more aware, or of it being sensationalised more in the press / media.

It also strikes me (and this isn't in response to anything in particular, it just strikes me ) that fuel costs, high as they are, aren't necessarily all that big a deal compared to running costs generally. If you've bought a newish car that's depreciating rapidly, have it serviced at a dealer, insured it and taxed it, it's costing loads just sitting there. The actual marginal cost of extra journeys is not all that great.

Agreed - for many, depreciation is a huge, yet largely unvoiced, cost of car ownership.

30 or 40 years back, I'm not sure - did cars depreciate as quickly when the churn was nothing like as great?

 

[MikeD]

Good question, no idea . They were a lot more expensive (compared to household income) to buy in the first place, though.

 

[MikeD]

In case anyone doubts the depreciation thing, according to Parkers a 3yr old Ford Focus from a dealer would cost about £6,000. New price in 2008 - just under £14,000. That's £8,000 over three years, or over £2,500 a year. 10,000 miles worth of petrol at today's prices would be about £1,500.