Independent - Big article on Cyclist Deaths...

[Ernie]

I am still going through the process of a "coming together" with a bus http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... sc&start=0 :roll:

Ernie

 

[Russell]

Now I have the pleasure of rounding the long blind uphill corner and finding myself, being a considerate motorist who will not overtake a cyclist on a blind corner, sitting at <10mph waiting for a car doing the standard 65 in a 50 zone to hammer into my backside. My only option being to attempt an overtake on a blind corner, or ironically pull off the road onto the dedicated cycle path.

So is the problem here the cyclist being on the road, or the driver behind you doing 30% over the speed limit round a blind corner?

Only one of them is breaking the law, and it isn't the cyclist.

 

[Ernie]

Just recieved a letter last week from Devon and Cronwall Police saying they are NOT going any further with my investigation..this means it is up to me to take the Bus company to court with help from an accident scheme solicitor..which have been handling this case from the beginning.

I wrote a letter to the litigation dept of the local police. The police officer at the scene did NOT do her job correctly..she did not note any "signficant comments"{ although she admitted to me that driver had said to her that he got to close to me :x } on the accident report..these comments are made by a pesron/persons at a imcident/scene which might have a bearing on the outcome..Today i recieved a letter stating that they have given the file back to the officer to re-investgate..If she has not "noted" the comments in her pocket book..i am :evil: f^cked :evil: . This means that it might go 50/50..again i have not spoken to my solicitor about requesting the cctv coverage from the bus{new /modern buses have small glass lenses on the top corners of chassis}..hope fully that will help..lets see.

Rant over..on a positive note i am here and i am well..un like some of our { http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145627 } enthusiasts who are "laid to rest" :cry:

Ernie

 

[highlandsflyer]

I don't know if you are a driver.

If that driver were doing 65 and I am doing 30 odd I might be lucky to escape with a bit of a tap. If I am basically sitting there waiting I am possibly going to be involved in a fatality.

Were they adhering to the stated limit, there would still be a good chance of me being whacked and my car ending up sitting with my passenger exposed to a collision from oncoming traffic.

Real world scenario is that I expect a car coming at sixty five.

When I am pushing a pram across the road I don't calculate that an oncoming vehicle will be observing the stated limit.

I base my expectations on empirical knowledge.

The question is not who is breaking the law.

The question is how do we make the roads safer for all using them.

 

[Neil]

Just what do you mean by integrated? How will that work exactly? How exactly would you change driver behaviour and the very nature of the beast to achieve this?

Education (I was tempted to write Education, Education, Education - but thought it fatuous... then I thought: it's never stopped me before...), proactive attention and enforcement from the police. If they and society can get all hot and bothered about drink and driving, and speed and "safety cameras" - then why not about cyclists on the road.

Oh yeah, I forgot, largely society doesn't care...

I don't have time for any argument that suggests using cycle paths is in some way promoting an attitude that bikes cannot use the roads.

Then do, or don't as you please.

I'm sure we've all seen comments - even facebook groups - with motorists, en-masse, I might add - all extolling that point that whilst there's a "cycle path" alongside the road, what the hell are cyclists doing actually on the road.

How exactly does that happen? Does the motorist observe that less cyclists are on the road and think to themselves, "Thank God for the cycle paths carrying the other two wheeled menaces who would otherwise be cluttering up my road, now only if there was a way to get rid of these last few, they really shouldn't be on the road."?

Um, see above.

There was a thread about the facebook group some time back. There's been plenty of comments on the various websites, where motorists have expressed such an opinion.

There are indeed some idiotic cyclists using roads where there is an adjacent cycle path. I have a road near me like this. They raised the limit to 50mph once they completed the separated cycle way and pedestrian way.

I think "idiotic" is harsh.

Cyclists and pedestrians are the only road users that actually have a (true) right to use them. Motorists merely have a "privilege" (given certain pre-requisites).

Now I have the pleasure of rounding the long blind uphill corner and finding myself, being a considerate motorist who will not overtake a cyclist on a blind corner, sitting at <10mph waiting for a car doing the standard 65 in a 50 zone to hammer into my backside. My only option being to attempt an overtake on a blind corner, or ironically pull off the road onto the dedicated cycle path.

So what would happen with said following motorist if there was already stationary traffic - you know, accident, traffic jam, tree fallen in the road, etc...

The law expects - quite rightly - that motorists be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. Anything else is at least DWDCA.

Not just once have I told cyclists to use the path provided.

Had trouble parsing that line.

Are you saying that you have told cyclists more than once to use the cycle path?

 

[Russell]

And thats where we're going wrong isn't it, just accepting that drivers will do the speed limit plus 30% and changing our behaviour to suit them. Whats wrong with not accepting this and actually enforcing speed limits?

Surely using 'empirical knowledge', it can be expected that a cyclist will run a red light so drivers should drive accordingly and pedestrians should look out for it before stepping into the road?

We make the roads safer for all using them by educating drivers, slowing motor vehicles down, increasing penalties for dangerous driving and breaking this attitude that drivers have right to be on the roads.

Motor vehicles account for more than 99% of fatalities on the roads, we're not going to make the roads significantly safer by throwing new laws at the people responsible for the remaining (less than) 1%

 

[The Ken]

Some cyclists cycle on the road instead of cycle paths because the path is in such poor condition or strewn with debris that is unpleasant to cycle on - I have done this a lot - I see no problem with it, especially as the councils rarely maintain them, which is not surprising as they are struggling to keep up with the roads at the moment.

 

[yagamuffin]

The Indy site is down - must be all the retrobike traffic.

Think the 'bad cyclist' element is over stated. Yes there are some fools but they are far outnumbered by the 'bad motorists'. These 'bad motorists' quite regularly almost fetch me off my bike (and have done so in the past). The consequences for this are probably somewhat worse than some Daily Mail stereotype jumping a red light....

I agree completely John, I just see what I see myself as well. I'm no friend of inattentive drivers (see my sig - I was lucky I saw him pulling out and bailed just in time to see my Proflex disappear under the car) but I've lost count of the times a rider sails through red lights or bumps up a kerb in front of people with no concern when I'm on my commute. Maybe I just notice it more whilst I'm stopped at the lights.

And yes the potential consequences are indeed worse for someone on a bike than in a car. Especially if the drivers are on the phone, or putting makeup on or even reading a book steering with their legs as I saw the other day.

Why can't we all get along together? We are playing with people's lives here but everyone's in too much of a hurry to notice.

And there lies the root of all these problems. No one has any patience.
Whether it be pulling out of side roads when the gap isn't big enough, jumping red lights, crossing the road without looking.

It seems patience is a thing of the past. If everyone was to just chill out and relax a little the world would be a lot safer place.

*God I sound like a hippy!

 

[yagamuffin]

Just recieved a letter last week from Devon and Cronwall Police saying they are NOT going any further with my investigation..this means it is up to me to take the Bus company to court with help from an accident scheme solicitor..which have been handling this case from the beginning.

I wrote a letter to the litigation dept of the local police. The police officer at the scene did NOT do her job correctly..she did not note any "signficant comments"{ although she admitted to me that driver had said to her that he got to close to me :x } on the accident report..these comments are made by a pesron/persons at a imcident/scene which might have a bearing on the outcome..Today i recieved a letter stating that they have given the file back to the officer to re-investgate..If she has not "noted" the comments in her pocket book..i am :evil: f^cked :evil: . This means that it might go 50/50..again i have not spoken to my solicitor about requesting the cctv coverage from the bus{new /modern buses have small glass lenses on the top corners of chassis}..hope fully that will help..lets see.

Rant over..on a positive note i am here and i am well..un like some of our { http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145627 } enthusiasts who are "laid to rest" :cry:

Ernie

My boss had a similar f*ck-up with the Police when he was knocked off his motorbike. The copper at the scene didn't take notes properly and as a result the Police were unable to bring any charges.

 

[Neil]

The Indy site is down - must be all the retrobike traffic.

Think the 'bad cyclist' element is over stated. Yes there are some fools but they are far outnumbered by the 'bad motorists'. These 'bad motorists' quite regularly almost fetch me off my bike (and have done so in the past). The consequences for this are probably somewhat worse than some Daily Mail stereotype jumping a red light....

I agree completely John, I just see what I see myself as well. I'm no friend of inattentive drivers (see my sig - I was lucky I saw him pulling out and bailed just in time to see my Proflex disappear under the car) but I've lost count of the times a rider sails through red lights or bumps up a kerb in front of people with no concern when I'm on my commute. Maybe I just notice it more whilst I'm stopped at the lights.

And yes the potential consequences are indeed worse for someone on a bike than in a car. Especially if the drivers are on the phone, or putting makeup on or even reading a book steering with their legs as I saw the other day.

Why can't we all get along together? We are playing with people's lives here but everyone's in too much of a hurry to notice.

And there lies the root of all these problems. No one has any patience.
Whether it be pulling out of side roads when the gap isn't big enough, jumping red lights, crossing the road without looking.

It seems patience is a thing of the past. If everyone was to just chill out and relax a little the world would be a lot safer place.

*God I sound like a hippy!

Personally, I think it's not only a patience thing.

A comment I made in a thread a while ago:-

And did what a lot of drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians do (for that matter, people in general) - completely fail to accept they were in the wrong, and overreact to compensate - because the alternative, that they were actually being a to55er is clearly too difficult for their egos to handle.

The times I've seen that - where pedestrians, cyclists or drivers make a mistake or are in the wrong, but rather than simply accept - or heaven forbid, apologise for - they complete overract with anger and / or aggression.