HAPPY ST.GEORGES DAY.....

[silverclaws]

What, you are actually allowed to fly the English flag and not be accused of inciting racial hatred?

St George was foisted on us and really has nothing to do with us, something about crusaders seeing an apparition on the way to the holy lands to kill the population they took to be good fortune, did it never occur the apparition was a get lost appearance. But st george is a national figure in Syria too, but then he came from Syria Palestina as it was called at the time.

The rest of it is cobbled together, the flag being of templar origin, and with that, no thanks.

 

[Piperdave]

You have Henery VIII to thank for england not celebrating any saints at all. The rift with Rome and the pope regarding his need/desire to shag someone else, and the following dissalution of the monastries, shrines, and catholic faith in general, establishing the protestant Curch of England, put paid to much of the folklore, celebration, and fun in this country.

It is also the case that in modern times the far right political groups have appropriated the flag and day of St George for their own agenda, leaving many people avoiding the day for fear of being asociated with that movement.

It is difficult to know in these times how we could celebrate. Many who do like to think of Bangers and Mash, Pies, and Musichall piano in the style of Chas & Dave. However these are all really modern, ie only about 150 years old. Should we be looking at great writers, engineers, culture and regional culture to bind us together?

As an island with formally an empire, a history of foreign monarchy, and a duplicitus record of foreign policy, there would seem little to celebrate at all. :cry:

Discuss.....

 

[silverclaws]

I tend to agree with you and the only vestige left now one could claim to celebrate every six weeks with a major celebration every twelve weeks is paganism with the wheel of the year and it makes sense as it gives the worker something to look forward too, something to keep them rolling along.

But of the racist fraternity that like to blame everything on muslims, I quite enjoy telling them the st george they are so proud of was most likely a Palestinian or Syrian, so Arab or at least one of the semitic people of the region they hate so much. But then often it is with the racist is that they are poorly educated initially and stay that way believing they know everything.

But to the Arabs George is revered and is known as George the green, green being a holy colour to them, so in fact the racists share this person with those whom they hate. But it is reported by British travellers to what is now Jordan there was an interfaith shrine to George way back in the nineteenth century, the interfaith being muslim, christian and Jewish, such forward thinking for the time, there is no reports to say that this shrine still exists, probably got swept away when mean men decided they didn't like peace as it was not profitable.

Religion to me is a tool of people control and when more people wise up to this fact, then perhaps the true reason for hurting others will be revealed.

But the English are disliked the world over, do we deserve to be disliked, well we do, if we align to what are rulers made us do in the past, as to remember to get out of poverty and no future people are forced to join the military and seek adventure, they are still doing it today which translates as military trade expeditioning to enrich a minority at the expense of a majority, yeah us, who anyone with a beef attacks, not the shysters who caused the problem and who are well protected, because they are not us, the minions who are so easily used.

 

[petitpal]

Personally I'm agnostic so the idea of 'Saints' is fairly meaningless to me. Very happy to be English but don't feel the need for a particular religious group that happens to, fairly randomly, choose people that have performed what it deonates as 'miracles', to tell me when I can celebrate it.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh. In one of those sorts of moods today. :|

 

[Andy R]

But the English are disliked the world over.

There are a few that I like well enough.....

 

[petitpal]

You have Henery VIII to thank for england not celebrating any saints at all. The rift with Rome and the pope regarding his need/desire to shag someone else, and the following dissalution of the monastries, shrines, and catholic faith in general, establishing the protestant Curch of England, put paid to much of the folklore, celebration, and fun in this country.

To be fair, I think you could argue quite successfully that it was Christianity full stop that put pay to the connection with our pagan roots and older folk law and history; not the C of E - that simply replaced one religious view with another (where Henry could do what we fancied without asking someone in Rome first). And at least the C of E doesn't have quite so much emphasis on burning in flames if you have a good time. Generally it's about tea, cake and who gets to do the flowers.

(Yes, still in a mood - sorry).

 

[David B]

To be fair, I think you could argue quite successfully that it was Christianity full stop that put pay to the connection with our pagan roots and older folk law and history.

Although Christianity did nick a few pagan festivals and pass them off as its own - Easter being the main culprit with Christmas as runner-up (which I think is partly how Christmas in most of western Europe - and colonies founded by it - gradually got moved to December whereas Orthodox churches celebrate it in January).

And at least the C of E doesn't have quite so much emphasis on burning in flames if you have a good time. Generally it's about tea, cake and who gets to do the flowers.

Cue the old Eddie Izzard "cake or death?" routine....

David

 

[petitpal]

To be fair, I think you could argue quite successfully that it was Christianity full stop that put pay to the connection with our pagan roots and older folk law and history.

Although Christianity did nick a few pagan festivals and pass them off as its own - Easter being the main culprit with Christmas as runner-up (which I think is partly how Christmas in most of western Europe - and colonies founded by it - gradually got moved to December whereas Orthodox churches celebrate it in January).

And at least the C of E doesn't have quite so much emphasis on burning in flames if you have a good time. Generally it's about tea, cake and who gets to do the flowers.

Cue the old Eddie Izzard "cake or death?" routine....

David

My favourite christian-conversion related story (and I realise that this is off topic, sorry) is the chap who talked to the chief of a tribe in to converting to christianity and the entire bunch walked through a local river as a baptism; once on the other side the chief realised that his ancestors were all in valhalla and not heaven - so he converted back by driving the entire tribe back through the river in the other direction. Sorry... back on topic now... they've just bought out cakes in our office to celebrate 'the big day' so happy St Georges day... always loved the chap.

 

[greenstiles]

Perhaps the feeling i'm getting here is that we are mostly educated enough to not to belive in fairies anymore and that has led on to rejecting religious ceremony in this country. If that is the case other countries are just backward in still beliving in miracles and saints is that right ?

ok if no st. George should we celebrate our Britishness in another way ? or is it all too silly and we'll just let our culture die off naturally ?

Just seems a shame to me, other countries rejoice in their differences, food wine etc............how bland we are :cry:

 

[uktyler]

I think we should celebrate our Britishness on St Georges day. Not as a religious thing, just because we can.

It would be nice to claim back St George and his cross from the like of the EDL.

Being British is about being a part of a multicultural country and I for one would like to celebrate.

Who's for a curry