Geoffrey Butler - Ishiwata 017

[Mr Weirdo]

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the EO marking on shell is likely to be for EISHO, a Japanese maker of lugs and shells

suspect date not prior to '76 nor later than '78

lots of spots there likely to exhibit date markings:

backside of Sakae Ringyo crank arms

portion of stem down inside steerer

right end of bar

portion of saddle pillar down inside seat tube

gear mechs

steerer

there is a helpful guide here to reading the markings:

http://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm

fork appears it might be an off-the-peg item; do fork ends match dropouts?


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I was looking for a serial number today and found one on the bb shell in the 3 o'clock position if the bicycle frameset was upright.

Now this bicycle does scream 1970's but the serial number is 2568. So I had a look at the classic lightweight web site and under the Geoffrey Butler section there is a frame set with serial number 2268. Which if I understand correctly from the information was built in 1968.

So could this Ishiwata frame be 1968 with later brazed additions? Also if this is correct would this make it a very early appearance in the UK of an Ishiwata frame as I believe the company only began in the late 60's?

 

[Mr Weirdo]

I was looking for a serial number today and found one on the bb shell in the 3 o'clock position if the bicycle frameset was upright.

Now this bicycle does scream 1970's but the serial number is 2568. So I had a look at the classic lightweight web site and under the Geoffrey Butler section there is a frame set with serial number 2268. Which if I understand correctly from the information was built in 1968.

So could this Ishiwata frame be 1968 with later brazed additions? Also if this is correct would this make it a very early appearance in the UK of an Ishiwata frame as I believe the company only began in the late 60's?

Maybe incorrectly I could be assuming that the last two digits of the serial number mean that was when the frame was manufactured?

Does anyone know about the serial numbering of Geoffrey Butler frame sets?

I believe they were not made by GB?

Thank you

 

[juvela]

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based me date estimate on a combination of frame details & kitting

cycle seemed to have a "factory assembled" look/vibe but could easily be mishtooken

had never heard of Geoffrey Butler offering assembled machines...which certainly does not mean that none were done

had only heard the name associated with bespoke work

the earliest use of Ishiwata tubing in European built frames was done in Belgium in 1973

one possibility which glided in is that the frame may have been contract produced in that land and assembled into a cycle upon its arrival in the U.K.

do not wish to assert that this is the case...mention it only as a possibility you may wish to investigate...

also possible that assembly into a cycle may have been performed at the retail shop level

perchance our most august @non-fixie may wish to comment


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[Mr Weirdo]

Thank you Juvela for your reply.

I suppose also maybe best to contact the original owners of the bicycle and see if they can remember anything more?

It looks and I agree with you that it appears more 1970's than any other decade.

I will try and find details of GB serial numbers but my understanding is that it was all sourced out to reputable builders.

I have seen one other GB Ishiwata through a search on the intranet but that was dated a few years back. But will try and make contact?

All the best

 

[Mr Weirdo]

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based me date estimate on a combination of frame details & kitting

cycle seemed to have a "factory assembled" look/vibe but could easily be mishtooken

had never heard of Geoffrey Butler offering assembled machines...which certainly does not mean that none were done

had only heard the name associated with bespoke work

the earliest use of Ishiwata tubing in European built frames was done in Belgium in 1973

one possibility which glided in is that the frame may have been contract produced in that land and assembled into a cycle upon its arrival in the U.K.

do not wish to assert that this is the case...mention it only as a possibility you may wish to investigate...

also possible that assembly into a cycle may have been performed at the retail shop level

perchance our most august @non-fixie may wish to comment


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[Mr Weirdo]

 

[PhillB]

I honestly thought I would of had a barrel full of replies by now...is there no love for Ishiwata out there! Lol

Hello, Yes! I love Ishiwata!! Especially if it has a Kuwahara decal on it!!

 

[non-fixie]

The combination of top tube cable tunnels and under-the-BB-shell shifter cable routing usually points to the early 1980's.

@juvela 's right in that the Belgians were the first Europeans to adopt Japanese tubing and parts in the early '70's, but the overall impression I get from the pictures is Japanese, rather than Belgian. The finish looks, well, different from the Belgian bikes from that era.

It reminded me of this unidentified frame I found a few years ago. Branded "Akibo", but that was a trading firm, not a manufacturer:

 

[Mr Weirdo]

Hello, Yes! I love Ishiwata!! Especially if it has a Kuwahara decal on it!!

Thanks for that It definitely has an Ishiwata 017 decal on the seat tube...

 

[Mr Weirdo]

The combination of top tube cable tunnels and under-the-BB-shell shifter cable routing usually points to the early 1980's.

@juvela 's right in that the Belgians were the first Europeans to adopt Japanese tubing and parts in the early '70's, but the overall impression I get from the pictures is Japanese, rather than Belgian. The finish looks, well, different from the Belgian bikes from that era.

It reminded me of this unidentified frame I found a few years ago. Branded "Akibo", but that was a trading firm, not a manufacturer:

View attachment 992657

Other than the fork crown it's identical though many bicycle frames are similar?

It's a shame GB closed in 2016 but that doesn't guarantee I guess they would know?

Nice light blue that...as I said before I will have to I interrogate the former owners son in the nicest possible way lol.

Thank you for your input and time