yep jez has it! thats what i mean i remember old halfords bikes with bits on that were crap, like thew old 200 he mentions, it was made of steel and plastic and looked crap. plastic covered steel canti brakes which did not work and weighed a ton. this was at a time when top end bikes were things like manitous and kleins, which looked v light and mint. what i think im trying to get at is, if the retro bikes we like now are all purple and rasta, in fifteen years time retrobikes are all going to be black?......wow i cant wait :cry: