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Oh lord I see the light! I shall now stay indoors, the plastic bubble has been ordered too.
Cycle paths or road??
- Thread starter Ernie
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We_are_Stevo":3r6lbovi said:
Steveo, as you seem to be well attuned to the impatient motorists side of the argument I am curious what you make of this advice:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14575975
In summary: Suggesting cyclists need to be more aggressive / assertive on the roads to ensure motorists are more aware of them!!
What would a polarised, aggressive and impatient motorists view be on that?
And no I am not interested in what happens after a collision or speculating who might come off worse any more than anyone else here, I'm only interested in behaviour and attitude.
We_are_Stevo
Old School Grand Master
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I am only attuned to to what other road users do (and do not do) because I am, for want of a better title, a professional driver.
To set the record straight I drive a Ford LGV classified van that is chipped to a maximum (down hill, with the wind behind it...) 68mph - and even at that lowly speed I still pass probably a good 70% of other traffic on dual carriageways/motorways!
I am, in general, a very courteous driver - in London I get 'road rage' directed at myself for slowing to allow drivers out of side roads or to turn right across in front of me; I always give way to buses and taxis; if I see a pedestrian waiting on an island in the middle of the road I will always slow to allow them to cross; the other day in Eastbourne I spotted a young bloke whose car had broken down at a set of traffic lights at a busy, narrow junction. The traffic was building up but no-one would help him so when I managed to get past I pulled into the side of the road (on a double yellow line...) walked back through the traffic and pushed his car, by myself, uphill, across the flaming pavement and around the corner so that he was in a safer position and the traffic could flow...
Not one other person offered to help... :roll:
As for the 'aggressive cycling' I am wholeheartedly in favour of it!
It's been a long term standing joke of mine when ever anyone has mentioned 'defensive driving' etc to champion the merits of 'attack driving!' The same used to apply when I was a cycling commuter myself...
This is not the same thing as being a complete kn*b and ignoring every rule in the Highway Code though!
To set the record straight I drive a Ford LGV classified van that is chipped to a maximum (down hill, with the wind behind it...) 68mph - and even at that lowly speed I still pass probably a good 70% of other traffic on dual carriageways/motorways!
I am, in general, a very courteous driver - in London I get 'road rage' directed at myself for slowing to allow drivers out of side roads or to turn right across in front of me; I always give way to buses and taxis; if I see a pedestrian waiting on an island in the middle of the road I will always slow to allow them to cross; the other day in Eastbourne I spotted a young bloke whose car had broken down at a set of traffic lights at a busy, narrow junction. The traffic was building up but no-one would help him so when I managed to get past I pulled into the side of the road (on a double yellow line...) walked back through the traffic and pushed his car, by myself, uphill, across the flaming pavement and around the corner so that he was in a safer position and the traffic could flow...
Not one other person offered to help... :roll:
As for the 'aggressive cycling' I am wholeheartedly in favour of it!
It's been a long term standing joke of mine when ever anyone has mentioned 'defensive driving' etc to champion the merits of 'attack driving!' The same used to apply when I was a cycling commuter myself...
This is not the same thing as being a complete kn*b and ignoring every rule in the Highway Code though!
We_are_Stevo":2v07vm2e said:
Which is why I asked you (in your experience/opinion) how a bad motorist might think/behave/react when confronted with a cyclist following this advice; with lets just say a badly designed and unsuitable cycle path (aka pavement with a bike painted on it) adjacent to him?
Otherwise all cyclists should be extra wary of any Blue Ford LGV classified vans in the Heathfield area right? ;-) lol
highlandsflyer
Retro Wizard
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We_are_Stevo":2xjuyefi said:
I didn't think that. Anyone else?
We_are_Stevo":2xjuyefi said:
Who is squeamish? You don't know most of the people on here, so why make assumptions? I am sure there are plenty working in or have worked in jobs where they come into contact with injury and death. I am in my forties, I am sure a lot of us have seen plenty by the time we got to where we are. You seem to think you are here to educate.
We_are_Stevo":2xjuyefi said:
Then I consider it totally unacceptable to post, and certainly without any warning. Really poor.
If it makes me think? Who the .... do you think you are man? You haven't a sniff who you are talking to or what they have been through in their lives.
This is a world wide site, there is no such thing as an anonymous picture involving death.
We_are_Stevo
Old School Grand Master
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In my opinion the majority of people are very selective in what they find offensive and when; they also seem to very selective in which truncated, out of context sentence of an entire thread they like to quote[/i]...
...but as I would appear to be in a very unpopuklar majorityof one I think it best I bow out before it gets any worse and the Mod's step in...
...but as I would appear to be in a very unpopuklar majorityof one I think it best I bow out before it gets any worse and the Mod's step in...
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gbsimpsa":s8yfk4ws said:
I second that. That's why my commuter bike has an old handlebar in the pump strap. That way I can be as agressive as necessary. :twisted:
(It's a joke, people. This topic is getting way too serious)
highlandsflyer
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*OFF TOPIC*
I would like you to point out any example of my being selective in what I find offensive and when.
My reactions are straight from the gut, and I say what I think.
I see no reason at all to post images of fatal accidents on a family orientated cycling website.
You are not informing anyone, and it is ridiculous to suggest that is your purpose, especially taking into consideration your off colour remarks.
Perhaps that is your way of dealing with issues you have a problem with, but you need not assume we all need to reduce things to a snigger and a bad taste remark. Nor do you need to assume you and only you are able to see what everyone else is missing, and somehow need to evangelise your approach to the matter lest we all crumble and dissolve at the mere hint of tragedy in our lives.
I am well aware of the banter amongst emergency workers and the like, people who need to defuse some of the tension involved in dealing with extreme and horrific situations.
However, it is my choice when I am confronted with such things, and quite reasonable I don't expect to have them pushed into my face on a cycling forum.
That is my point of view. I accept it is not everyone's. There is nothing personal in my remarks about you, this is just one issue we don't happen to agree on. I apologise if you think there is more to it than a wee disagreement at the bar.
*ON TOPIC*
Now as far as cycle paths go!
There seems to be a lot of evidence they are somewhat of a mixed bag, and in some places they seem to be more of a danger to cyclists than anything else.
In other places they are wonderful opportunities to experience something akin to the golden days of cycling, (whether those truly existed or not), when you could relax for a while and let your steering slacken a little, maybe even shut your eyes for a second or two, just like when you were a kid. An all but empty path winding through the hills with the sun in your face and a breeze cooling your back.
I understand that is a thousand miles away from half hearted attempts at providing cycle routes, the ones shown here with trees in them and suchlike. We need to complain when we encounter these things. I don't want them to chop down the trees, how about chopping some of the roads given over to cars so we can have them?
I would happily see every major town centre in the UK closed to cars and many of the main streets in the city centres.
My ideal world may be far from reality at the moment, but there is a trend towards separating cars and bikes, and in a future where cars may be pretty quiet it seems to make sense.
I would like to see HGVs totally separated from cycle traffic as well, and much more done to get them out of the city centres.
Other countries have bans on HGVs for certain days/times.
I would love it if we had a Saturday to Monday ban on HGVs.
Get all the freight back on the trains.
Someone suggested putting cycle lanes alongside all the train lines.
That would be a fantastic move, and actually fairly doable, where there are no tunnels!
We_are_Stevo":biqexusl said:
I would like you to point out any example of my being selective in what I find offensive and when.
My reactions are straight from the gut, and I say what I think.
I see no reason at all to post images of fatal accidents on a family orientated cycling website.
You are not informing anyone, and it is ridiculous to suggest that is your purpose, especially taking into consideration your off colour remarks.
Perhaps that is your way of dealing with issues you have a problem with, but you need not assume we all need to reduce things to a snigger and a bad taste remark. Nor do you need to assume you and only you are able to see what everyone else is missing, and somehow need to evangelise your approach to the matter lest we all crumble and dissolve at the mere hint of tragedy in our lives.
I am well aware of the banter amongst emergency workers and the like, people who need to defuse some of the tension involved in dealing with extreme and horrific situations.
However, it is my choice when I am confronted with such things, and quite reasonable I don't expect to have them pushed into my face on a cycling forum.
That is my point of view. I accept it is not everyone's. There is nothing personal in my remarks about you, this is just one issue we don't happen to agree on. I apologise if you think there is more to it than a wee disagreement at the bar.
*ON TOPIC*
Now as far as cycle paths go!
There seems to be a lot of evidence they are somewhat of a mixed bag, and in some places they seem to be more of a danger to cyclists than anything else.
In other places they are wonderful opportunities to experience something akin to the golden days of cycling, (whether those truly existed or not), when you could relax for a while and let your steering slacken a little, maybe even shut your eyes for a second or two, just like when you were a kid. An all but empty path winding through the hills with the sun in your face and a breeze cooling your back.
I understand that is a thousand miles away from half hearted attempts at providing cycle routes, the ones shown here with trees in them and suchlike. We need to complain when we encounter these things. I don't want them to chop down the trees, how about chopping some of the roads given over to cars so we can have them?
I would happily see every major town centre in the UK closed to cars and many of the main streets in the city centres.
My ideal world may be far from reality at the moment, but there is a trend towards separating cars and bikes, and in a future where cars may be pretty quiet it seems to make sense.
I would like to see HGVs totally separated from cycle traffic as well, and much more done to get them out of the city centres.
Other countries have bans on HGVs for certain days/times.
I would love it if we had a Saturday to Monday ban on HGVs.
Get all the freight back on the trains.
Someone suggested putting cycle lanes alongside all the train lines.
That would be a fantastic move, and actually fairly doable, where there are no tunnels!
...why have cotton when you can have silk? There is more to choose from than "path or road". Make your own with this bit of kit, and set a positive example to other cyclist about "assertive road claim" . Having a personal armed escort will go a long way in preventing and compensating for mis-behaving fellow travellers. Aftermath photo's are in a +18 adult section.
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highlandsflyer
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Raging_Bulls":1o78v1jp said:gbsimpsa":1o78v1jp said:
I second that. That's why my commuter bike has an old handlebar in the pump strap. That way I can be as agressive as necessary. :twisted:
(It's a joke, people. This topic is getting way too serious)
I am totally for defensive riding. It is how I drive as well as riding bikes. We have a LOT of roads up here that are two way but not really, if you know what I mean. Locals treat them as two way, but there really is not enough room to pass safely at speed.
When I see a car half a mile away I remain in the centre until they have slowed down, it is like a game of chicken, but actually makes sure they are going slow enough to make the manoeuvre relatively safe.
In the same way I sit out to prevent overtaking where is unsafe.
Someone mentioned they take the whole lane when cycling across London, that is required cycling to remain safe on a lot of the roads there, as we have terrible drains that have not been raised when the roads are refinished, etc. Literally throw you out of your saddle. (This is another reason I would never recommend skinny rubbered road bikes for London.) Just the other week I saw a chap being thrown a couple of feet into the air off his bike as he hit a drain on Kilburn High Road, in an almost identical manner as I saw not more than a few months ago on the same road.
This is why I want a system where everyone driving a car needs to take an awareness course about cycling, as I am sure most drivers haven't got a clue how dangerous it is to squeeze past cyclists.
Jokes aside about handle bars, when I was a cycle courier it was not unusual for us to whack cars with whatever we had handy.
When I was a motorbike courier I had colleagues who used padlock and chain to great effect, one actually chased a car for several miles after being knocked off and wrecked the guy's car.
If all the cycle commuters in London organised themselves every day they could ride in unison like Critical Mass, after all the average speed of traffic in London is very low, so why should cars be driving at 40+ in 30 limits between bottlenecks? Why not force them all down to 15?
I remember being so upset at the speed of an approaching Rolls Royce at Camden that I threw my cone of chips onto the windscreen as I stepped out onto the crossing, forcing them to brake. It was one of those fake step outs, the one you do to slow a vehicle down. The car only came to a halt after fully crossing the stripes, the driver knew fully well he would have squashed us had we actually taken our right of way.
Those ketchup smothered chips could well have been my meagre brains.
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