Catagorising the Mountain Bike Simply.

Augustus

Retrobike Rider
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Maybe over simplification, but,

I can't help feeling that they fall into four basic catagories.



1) mass produced (far east) bad. (Apollo, Generic no names etc)

2) mass produced (far east) well. (Specialized, Giant, Trek, Marin...)

3) not quite so mass produced (not so often far east perhaps) nicely. (Yeti, Klein, Cove, Turner)

4) limited built or custom hand made very nicely. (Serotta, Merlin, Indy Fab, Seven, Vanilla, Jones etc)


The four chambers of Mountain Bikes.
 
don't get me wrong, i've nothing against far eastern workmanship or even machines doing it (my handmade American lovely has got an ever so slightly over reamed seat tube so most posts slip in it! There's hand made for you).

:roll:


but it did take a fella 9 days to weld it together. Now that always feels like it makes it more worthwhile owning it.

That said, if that was a statement about British industry, it'd have been because it took a day to welld and 8 more to sit around moaning about it... :roll: :lol: :shock: :oops:
 
Is this a series of steps to enlightenment in the 4th Chamber - "behold, the legend that is Jones"?

I've always thought that some in 2nd Chamber don't receive the respect they are due - particularly Marin of those mentioned.

Good categories by the way - I'm tempted to add up my cumulative chamber numbers and divide by the number of bikes to achieve an Enlightenment Coefficient but then I am a maths teacher (it's 3.13 BTW)
 
It is really tough to make categorizing work I think

There are mass produced bike that not only look nicer made, but also give me the feel their owners where more serious on quality of their product than some non mass offerings.

Also know of far east manufacturers, that make good rep west builders look like a complete laugh.

Moreover many more factors determine what something stand for, for example: marketing vs engineering, looks, handling ...and 1001 more
 
I'm not sure I agree. The Taiwan factories are highly-automated and do really good work now, so quality differentials are mostly about design and about tube specifications. And I have to say my made-in-Taiwan Kilauea is fine, whereas Fat Chances of the same era have rust issues. Just like Ferraris used to rust worse than Volkswagens. Just like beautifully hand-built Nortons and Triumphs used to leak oil and conk out when it rained and mass-produced Hondas didn't do either.

But then my Rocky Mountain Team Sc has a sticker initialled by its Canadian frame-builder and I must say I like that.
 
The only point i'd like and that. Me and i'm sure lots of others started out on the number 1 bikes on that list and gave me a taste of more and better. So they did one thing right got me in to mtbs and cycling AND wanting more. Other wise i like the list :D
 
working in the trade has taught me that if you want to make things in big numbers then taiwan seems to be the best place.

there are only a few builders whose bikes i would ride that are made elsewhere than tiawan.
take orange for example, the gringo's, evo8, crush, the 07 clockwork and the 08 prestige and the p7 are all designed in england by orange but are built in taiwan but orange go out there and check out the factory to approve quality, sometimes they are painted in england by orange but not always, for example the 07 clockwork they liked the frame but didn't like the paint so bob jackson resprayed all 200! and orange get the black p7's painted in taiwan but the other colour options are painted by them in their own paint shop.
all the other frames they do are handbuilt in halifax and painted there and i think these are great bikes and good quality but the welding isn't usually quite as perfect as some taiwan brands because alot of the tiawan bikes are "robot" welded where as these are done by hand, but i do like the limitedness of them. only about 3800 total each year all in.

also marin, again mostly the whole range is designed in england by atb sales design team(previously including jon whyte, now ian alexander is lead designer) these are great quality bikes, in 4 years i've only done 2 frame warranty claims both being replaced by marin (when it was really abuse!) the design technology in these bikes i think is superior to alot of other bikes although having said that i'm not mad keen on the geometry but the mt vision rides fantastic (but i'd still buy an orange!)

also giant make alot of bikes for other people, specialized (big hits), trek, scott etc but so do merida, ever noticed the similarity between a brain technology bike, a merida full suss and a halfords carrera lrs?

also a world cup sunday from ironhorse is very similar to a glory/faith from giant. coincidence? there are 2 models, frame from u.s and built bike from taiwan. each brand saying they designed it first, "dw link" from ironhorse or "floating pivot point" or "maestro" from giant.

cannondale always said they wouldn't go to taiwan becuase of copying, for example if you go to giant to get your prototype frame made and ask for 3 of them, they will make 9, 3 for you, 3 for someonelse and 3 for them to keep. in 98, the giant terrago frame was very much like a p7 of that time!

basically, both products from england and taiwan are great as long as the quality is checked regularly.

i also like some italian built road bikes but not all of them but they tend to be "showmans bikes" meaning that sometimes the paint is more important than the ride/weight etc, my fausto coppi galaxy (by masciagi, think thats how you spell it?) being an example, it does ride well but there are some small mistakes on the frame covered up by paint!

i don't think made in the usa has the same cache as it used to mainly because tiawan has caught up as opposed to the usa getting worse. and lets not forget that some santa cruz bikes are now made in taiwan so even the americans have seen the light of mass prodution costings!

obviousley there are other places stuff gets built but the crappy stuff tends to be china, viet nam, bangladesh etc, taiwans industrial revolution was more recent than ours so alot of their tooling was more adaptable to newer technology like hydroforming.

also note there are hardley any companies in europe building with aluminium, i can only think of orange, commencal and orbea, the rest build with steel, roberts etc, but those type of guys aren't big number manufacturers (doesn't stop me wanting a dogs bolx though)

thought i'd throw that lot into the debate and see what you guys think, my fingers hurt now coz i really do suck at typing!

my bed is calling, goodnight! :D

p.s the opinions epressed here are not intended to upset anyone i just thought i'd tell a few things that i know, basically a good bike has as much to do with the welder as anythingelse regardless of what country he is from or lives in!
 
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