Can Alu frames ever feel like Steel frames?

[hamster]

So the people who say the frame material doesn't matter, "it's all about the construction and tube specs" are full of BS... because if alu frames could be safely/durably constructed to give a steel feel with less weight

I think you are taking the point about tube specs to a black and white extreme: you can make an aluminium frame that feels like steel, it just doesn't last very long. Similarly you can adjust the feel of a steel frame from over-stiff to compliant to flexy to wibbly by changing the tube dimensions.

There were a fair few MTB race frames made from 753 road tubes - they were great but fragile and only made by custom builders. Chas May built some for example. They weren't the kind of thing mass-makers would market due to product liability concerns. A custom builder would warn this in the commission sign-off.

The dimensions are more important than the material, although of course you can take them to extremes where the thing doesn't last long or is stiff but an absolute boat anchor. Some steel tubesets (like 653) were rather thin for the material in road dimensions, but in fatter MTB tubes were OK.

 

[Tootyred]

Dont expect a modern steel frame to feel like an early 90s one either. Testing and " standards" now means frames have to be beefed up. An old 1990 tange prestige frame was as whippy as as whippy thing....i love them....but it would fail construction testing in a heart beat.

So whilst modern mass production steel frames are probably better than alu......its custom or retro if you want that real flex and feel.

 

[neilbah]

The only Alu frame i've ridden which had some compliance in the way i might expect a steel frame to feel was a Columbus XLR8R, an early one without carbon rear end. It has slight box sections for the forward half of the chainstays and i'd genuinely say i could ride it all day compared to say an identical setup on a CAAD2 which had me feeling every bit of road surface and rattled along.

 

[grantoury]

I rode an FRM 8hp, a 1,3kg Easton aluminium frame at 19", with a rigid carbon fork and it absolutely flew, but seemed to have give like no other aluminium frame I tried. That was one in many, but all of the steel frames I have known had comfort, some were flexy but most weren't. Scandium had a reputation for being comfortable.

 

[highlandsflyer]

The stiffness issue is that indeed you could make an alu frame as flexy as a steel one - the problem is the different fatigue characteristics. Aluminium is entirely unlike steel in that it has a finite fatigue life regardless of the load. Steel has a limit below which it is effectively infinite. As a result a nice flexy alu frame will have a short life. To engineer them for acceptable durability they ended up as stiff as jackhammers, unlike steel frames.

@fennec has an interesting example of a frame designed to flex at the stays. Aluminium.

 

[brocklanders023]

Dont expect a modern steel frame to feel like an early 90s one either. Testing and " standards" now means frames have to be beefed up. An old 1990 tange prestige frame was as whippy as as whippy thing....i love them....but it would fail construction testing in a heart beat.

So whilst modern mass production steel frames are probably better than alu......its custom or retro if you want that real flex and feel.

This is the answer as modern steel isn't like retro steel. Saying that, my old Pace RC627 was lovely to ride and about as close to old school steel as I've found for many years.

 

[PanoIgano]

Dont expect a modern steel frame to feel like an early 90s one either.

Well it depends really. If you are talking about major mainstream brands then surely that's mostly the case. Otherwise, there are frame builders nowardays that are still using old stock tubesets from Reynolds, Columbus and Tange that make modern steel gravel or MTBs (29ers or 27.5ers) with updated geometry too. These ones don't ride so differently from a top of the line say Serotta in steal from the 90s. Actually, even some major brands do use old (in the name only) tubesets. Kona and Marin used Reynolds 521 for some of their models recently.

An old 1990 tange prestige frame was as whippy as as whippy thing....i love them....but it would fail construction testing in a heart beat.

At this point it all depends on construction and reinforcements in the frame. I am positive a 90s Team Marin made out of Tange Prestige will pass the tests today. It's just that noone will care to test it. I don't have proof obviously of this but Tange specifically achieved some very impressive feats with their heat treatment process in terms of strength to weight ratio.

 

[93hero]

Lots of old cliches and snake oil. Does a steel frame really ride better?

It is perfectly possible to design a superb aluminium frame, just as it is possible to design an awful steel frame.

 

[Woz]

Having owned a few Cannodales, Funk, Trek, Willier, ridden a Pace, and that dreadful damn Coppi, I was really out of the race to be a AL fanboy.

The problem with Ti and Steel for me .... you press on the pedal and you set-off, and you wonder what just happened. Where did that pedal stroke just go?

The decision making to buy a bike is probably in the vicinity of the bike shop, and you really can feel difference in steering and BB stiffness immediately IMHO. What was never mentioned and had to learn the wrong way after something with any remote distance mostly just horrible.

Had a Crescent hybrid in AL. Bought for a specific 200km ride for on road and light off road, mainly flat. It had curved seat-stays. The power down on the pedal stroke always felt there but that jack hammering up the ass after a long ride was no worse than a 531 Pro handbuilt.

 

[CassidyAce]

I must confess that I lack @Woz's experience of a 'jack hammering up the ass after a long ride' and I certainly don't feel qualified to comment on the relative merits of different frame materials for the aforementioned post-ride activity. Some forum members do have an extraordinarily... err... intimate and comprehensive knowledge of their bicycles.

Each to their own, I suppose. In response to a question from the OP a while ago: yes, you would notice a big difference between your carbon steel frame and a quality cro-mo frame. A mid-range, double-butted cro-mo frame from one of the big brands won't cost much but will offer a much more lively ride. Just make sure the geometry works for you.