Can Alu frames ever feel like Steel frames?

[Woz]

The bottom line Try for yourself. Our hobby is cheap and cheap enough to experiment - there is so much out there and all the empirical knowledge out there can very much help design a bike fit for a purpose - for a one off event or even that crazy notion of one bike for life and do it all.

The "best" is simply imaginary and 3rd hand marketing bull mostly. It's just got to work for you ultimately with design. IMHO.

 

[highlandsflyer]

I'm talking regular fully rigid normal/hybrid bikes, not the extremes of MTB or road bikes. I've read people claiming that frame material itself does not affect stiffness rather how the tubing is selected and put together, etc. By their logic the saying is that ALU is lighter than STEEL for a given stiffness, i.e if you wanted a steel bike as stiff as alu then it would be much heavier.

But the few alu bikes I've ridden (with no susp) all feel horrible and harsh with vibrations on rough terrain vs steel. So if it's not the frame material causing it, why can't manufacturer build an aluminum frame that way less stiff, similar to steel (even if it's more "noodley") that has the same comfort but it just lighter??! Most people who aren't riding serious would prefer an absorbent comfier ride at the expense of some flex surely...

Do such frames exist? I'm 200lbs so it can't be too delicately built but it annoys me when folks say "it's not the frame material" or "alu can be just as smooth riding as steel" because in my (limited) experience all alu frames so far feel quite harsh in comparison! If it was possible to make them less stiff with same flex as steel but just lighter, then surely that would be a very popular thing to sell.... Thoughts?

My secret sauce back in the day was a quality aluminium frame with the fattest tyres one could squeeze on.

 

[Stressed]

Just my own 2 penneth worth: I've owned just one aluminium rigid bicycle and I hated it- transmitted every pebble on the trail to my spine. My Al Mokomoko's fine- but that's full sus' and it still feels a little lifeless at times. Every decent steel frame I've ridden has felt oodles(!) better. Titanium though, in my experience, is something else: I've ridden the same trails on all three examples and the Hei Hei seemed to soak up the vibration while still being super rigid and nippy...

 

[Woz]

My secret sauce back in the day was a quality aluminium frame with the fattest tyres one could squeeze on.

Yup. Basically that. Then get into very stiff wheels with no flex, then work on tyre volume and pressure it becomes easy to compromise and with almost immediate effect what is exactly the major factor at play.

Going forward quicker with positive immediate feedback vs. traction in sloppy mud vs. that long haul needed comfort mostly is indeed solved on the contact with the surface of the road / off-road.

The human contact points on a bike are only three, and in cases just only two. All these bullshit flawed reviews and comparisons when the very human interaction and physical contact with the bike is more than often not consistent amongst the battery of tests would get you kicked out of any college 2nd year for being just stupid to make such a false assumption.

In the car industry, it is known that the majority of the decision to purchase with a potential buyer is at the first physical contact with the car - the door opening.

In the perfume industry, it is known that the majority of the decision to purchase with a potential buyer is at the first physical contact with the jar and the top cap opening.

We are so flawed and so swayed as humans. And thanks why we have space here to discuss just what the bike industry is up to.