Black Friday

[Neil]

Re: Re:

You had loyalty to Ebay. And presumably Paypal.

Eh - are you mad?

Loyalty? Ebay, and paypal?

I'd have not thought twice if they were selling it from another outlet - eg Amazon - with similar buyer and payment protection...

That's not brand loyalty, nor being influenced by marketing. That's simply recognising I'm much more likely to have a more trustworthy transaction, with recourse, if need be - based on the fact that I've been able to avail myself of buyer protection and recourse in the past - not merely based on trusting their marketing inspired words.

No, because Tesco, Ebay and now Amazon know nothing about their customers and how to attract and retain them. Would you have been so happy to use cheeptabletsfromchina.com?

And again... no.

Not because of brand / vendor loyalty, nor because of "marketing".

What you're trying to do is claim every person buys everything or from everywhere purely because of marketing. Which done to absolution, is quite simply, religion.

Marketing doesn't influence my interest in spec... MY purchase rationale does. If I want a device to have HDMI out, it's not because I've seen some advert, or video of somebody hooking up their tablet like that and using it as a media player, it's not because somebody is making a device with that feature - it's because I've found need / use for the feature.

Now you'll claim that's a triumph of marketing. But if I was truly influenced by marketing I'd have had countless iPhones and iPads, or Samsung tablets.

Spec is probably the biggest criteria with many things I buy - whereas brand typically matters little to me.

Again you're confusing advertising and brand with marketing. A 50" TV in black and white wouldn't sell today regardless of the strength of advertising. Spec is integral to the offer.

Seems you're quite happy with conflating advertising with marketing.

Look at the recent thread about smartwatches on here - I was pointing out, they'll probably prevail precisely because of marketing - not any true need, but a seeding of the market - yes, largely, just like what was done with tablets some years back.

You mean the marketing of a tablet to solve a problem nobody knew they had, resulting in you buying one? Precisely the point I've been making?

That's not when I bought one.

But yes, the same pattern that was evident in marketing tablets, is also quite clearly evident with smart-watches.

Spec was around long before failed car salesmen got their greasy hands on it.

And again. Go and read some Philip Kotler and see if he can educate you better than I'm doing.

I neither know nor care if I am more intelligent than you. What is clear is I know more about the subject at hand. I studied it for three years at university, continually read case studies and the work I do with businesses changes the way customers behave and makes them more money.

You are just waffling to reinforce your view that you are above such 'underhand' tactics, without fooling anyone.

And you're trying to claim that everything sold is purely by the starting rationale of marketing, and that they can take credit for how something is made, who buys it and when. And in fact the raison d'etre that people buy anything.

Now I'd accept, playing the percentages, they can take credit for a lot of why people by stuff.

But not all - and not everyone buys into it.

When I buy milk or bread, marketing isn't the reason WHY I buy it. There's potential, there, that marketing may influence the brand choices. But not the why.

Think about that for a second, then consider how many other things aren't bought, necesssarily, DRIVEN by marketing.

 

[legrandefromage]

Re: Re:

If not, they'd be incompetent - and surely marketing people couldn't possibly be incompetent.

PARKLIFE!!!

Just because they've been written on a white-board, though, doesn't necessarily mean they've been able to brainwash people.

PARKLIFE!!

Which is what happens with a lot of pseudo science, these days. So often, correlation is conflated with causation.

PARKLIFE!!

 

[al-onestare]

It still amazes me we can't say black sheep, black board,
but Black Friday is quite fine.

Are you fishing?

 

[Neil]

Re: Re:

If not, they'd be incompetent - and surely marketing people couldn't possibly be incompetent.

PARKLIFE!!!

Just because they've been written on a white-board, though, doesn't necessarily mean they've been able to brainwash people.

PARKLIFE!!

Which is what happens with a lot of pseudo science, these days. So often, correlation is conflated with causation.

PARKLIFE!!

It's all a blur to you, ain't it.

That punchline was, of course made possible, and predicated by those most ultimate of scheming manipulators - no, not marketing people - the Stonecutters.

Or is it...

 

[Neil]

Re: Re:

There is a reason the Hudl sold in droves and not just because its easy to get ho!d of, in fact they advertise Samsung and Apple more and have better 'direct' placement in their shops.

The Hudls are aimed at the market that wants a cheap decent tablet with a few bells and wistles. Purely and utterly marketed at families and people like you.
And that's why its sold well.

Yes there are others you could have bought but they just happened to given you the right adverts (word of mouth from friends and families, I.e. you've seen them and liked them. Then they marketed it to you at the right price. Ok so you got it at a bargain price, maybe even cost. But that is now cheap word of mouth advertising for them.

Win win and yes they even market fruit and veg, bread and milk.

Bugger isn't it.

No - you're pulling the same trick as techno.

You're attempting to say marketing is the reason behind everything we buy, as well as the choices we make when buying.

When you buy bread, or fruit and vegetables, you tend to do so because you want / need them. Marketing has quite possibly played no part in that decision. You may buy more, because of marketing (special offers), you may select a certain offer because of marketing, but the reason why you chose to buy fruit and veg, or bread, or milk or eggs - tends to be because you need some more.

Wait, I here you say - your choices on what you decide you need are probably as a result of marketing... well they could just as easily be because of preferences from your childhood on what you like to eat - in turn, based on preferences of your parents, or cravings from a pregnant wife, or the only food your baby doesn't barf all over your Jeff Banks shirt with the rather fetching Ted Baker tie...

There may be other things you buy when you're shopping - either in a store, or online, that are a result of marketing of various products or offers, but trying to overplay the motivation behind all we buy, is straying into religion.

The first tablet, ever, in the household was a result of failed marketing - yes, that's right - failed marketing. It was part of an internal sell-off due to the main business deciding that mobile OSs weren't a good enough return on investment, and that they were going to focus on core business.

Now if you're going to try and say that, um, falling for that sell-off, was also a triumph of marketing, then I'm going to say they fell on their swords, that day - if that was by design, then they shot themselves in the foot.

Another tablet I bought was also due to failed marketing. The notion of a tablet wasn't seeded to me, by that point, and if the manner and price that they were sold off, was really some clever marketing wheeze, then they really need to focus on the bottom line.

Unless they're into pro-bono work for the good of the market...

If a bulb fails in my house and I go to a shop to buy another - that's not a triumph of marketing. The bulb I choose over another one, may be, or it may be that some discerning people see what they're being tempted to buy, in terms of placement or offers, but may not actually be what they actually want.

If I'm tempted to buy something out of the blue, or that I wouldn't normally buy, or buy something at a time I wasn't intending - that may well be a victory for marketing. If I select a certain product, over another one, that may well be a victory for marketing. If people troop, en-masse, to large supermarkets, to walk over each other, as if there's an impending zombie apocalypse, in order to buy a shonky brand of big TV, for a price that's probably about all it's truly worth - then that is a victory for marketing (but dragons be there, it may also become toxic for them).

If I choose a certain company, or worker to do some job on my house - that may, or may not involve being marketed to. It may be because I've used a particular individual in the past and they've done a good job, or because I've asked friends or relatives who they'd recommend.

Point being, there's a disconnect, between all the things some people in marketing would like to claim credit for, and all the things that people are truly affected by - as I said, previously, far from all they'd claim, is empirical. Now I'd accept, that in general, marketing influences more people, in more ways, than they probably realise. There's a corollary that applies, though, not all they claim, is based on robust, substantiated rationale - just as much power of assertion, and correlation, as opposed to causation.

 

[ferrus]

Re:

There was this guy who had a Campagnolo tool kit - his Raleigh Arena had the smoothest bearings of any in the land.

Then Cancer healed him.

Today, the air smells fine. His wife's smile has never looked more beautiful, and his coffee tastes so damn good.

 

[fagin]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/black ... 35708.html

"Customers who braved the violent scramble for big-screen TVs have placed them on the internet auction site, but failed to attract any offers"

 

[EggyBum6969]

yes going for a ride helps alot but this book can help to make stress a minor issue
you can deal with at any time, being someone who sufferd with chronic stress i can tell you it helped me alot
my life will never be as bad now , its sad to see others suffering when the cure is so simple.
but there are those that enjoy misery an are scared they may become happy for once in there life

thats not aimed at anyone but the keyboard warriors should get them self some help,
hijacking threads with trivia bullsh1t to massage your egos baaah lifes to short

neil have you heard of a book called the chimp paradox

it was written by Prof Steve Peters who is a consultant psychiatrist and the resident
psychiatrist with Sky ProCycling team and team gb

i would reccomend you read this book it helped me control my stress
and even if you dont like the rest of the book the parts about dealing with stress are worth every penny

its a hard book to read from start to finish
an the other 3 people i know who have this book gave up reading it
a 1/4 way in or less, and unlike me they are still failing to deal with there
stress an often react to things badly an vent there stress on others

your a smarter chap then me so i think it would be a good thing for you to read
an anyone else whos intrested

 

[technodup]

Re: Re:

Now I'd accept, playing the percentages, they can take credit for a lot of why people by stuff.

But not all - and not everyone buys into it.

It's not some voodoo you buy into or don't. You believe that you're somehow above being persuaded into buying by marketers.

Marketing is simply the process by which you find or retain customers. From the earliest physical markets selling fruit to Ebay selling tablets the principles are much the same. For anyone to use Ebay or Amazon or Tesco or Coke and claim not to have been affected/influenced/persuaded in some way simply isn't credible.

And your example about veg or bread is misplaced too. The first guy who grew/harvested a carrot had to then sell it at a market. As it was new he might have given free samples or sold at a cheaper price than competitors turnips. People try it, demand grows and ultimately it becomes a staple to the extent that yes, a carrot is a carrot is a carrot. But again farmers getting their product to Tesco is still marketing, just not in the way you think of it. You're thinking of Tesco's organic carrots with their nice signage and eco credentials as the marketing bit. Which is only one small part of the marketing mix.

Anyway, this is done. You keep believing you're above it and I'll keep creating stuff you want to buy.

 

[Neil]

Re: Re:

Now I'd accept, playing the percentages, they can take credit for a lot of why people by stuff.

But not all - and not everyone buys into it.

It's not some voodoo you buy into or don't. You believe that you're somehow above being persuaded into buying by marketers.

No I don't.

I simply reject the all-ecompasssing, take-credit-for-every-single-purchase-decision-and-product-choice-anybody-could-ever-make, part of it.

It's almost a modern religion.

And the voodoo thing? What about the little old bloke who knows what he wants from the shops every week, writes a list, and gets his favourite niece to go buy his groceries for him. How does he get suckered by marketing if he never actually samples it? I suppose you could try and suggest that whoever shops for him, occasionally buys something because of clever marketing in the supermarket, and he then decides it's changed his life - but most people I know who shop for other people just buy exactly what they ask for, give them the receipt, and then the change.

Uncannily, it would appear a voodoo doll has no effect on him, either...

Marketing is simply the process by which you find or retain customers. From the earliest physical markets selling fruit to Ebay selling tablets the principles are much the same. For anyone to use Ebay or Amazon or Tesco or Coke and claim not to have been affected/influenced/persuaded in some way simply isn't credible.

Influenced - I'll grant you - driven by, in an all-encompassing scenario you'd have it take credit for is a different matter.

Lots of people, try and claim sophisticated schemes control everything - like the nutjob conspiracy theorists and their bat-shit crazy, lizard juntas controlling everything far above government.

The reality is, there's plenty of clever schemes, that affect and influence plenty of people - and yes, where business is concerned, in quite a cohesive manner. All the same, it's not the all-encompassing mind-control juju you're trying to have it claim credit for.

Look at the subject of this thread, for example: Black Friday. Some people are clearly heavily influenced - and indeed, go out with their elephant guns and bag themselves some spoils. Some know and hear about it but couldn't care less. And some people actively despise the notion.

As a generalism, you won't go far wrong with the notion that the answer isn't really some complex or clever overriding scheme, just an overarching common approach that tends to play the percentages. It's not magic, mind-control, or juju - there's always some degree of random.

And your example about veg or bread is misplaced too. The first guy who grew/harvested a carrot had to then sell it at a market. As it was new he might have given free samples or sold at a cheaper price than competitors turnips. People try it, demand grows and ultimately it becomes a staple to the extent that yes, a carrot is a carrot is a carrot. But again farmers getting their product to Tesco is still marketing, just not in the way you think of it. You're thinking of Tesco's organic carrots with their nice signage and eco credentials as the marketing bit. Which is only one small part of the marketing mix.

And plenty of people sell veg with home-made signs outside their farms or small-holdings.

Plenty of small businesses have no true notion of having some marketing consultant they've never had any contact with, take credit for them managing to work as a small business, oddly bereft of any buzzwords, on a topic they've never had any instruction or education in, but have managed to prevail with their business, organically, because for some, at least, they've managed to keep their customers happy and their business running, by what they would perceive as common sense.

But by all means, apply the label of marketing to it, and you can take credit for what they manage to sustain, even if having no input, no connection, no influence, or no recognition by them, that the "system" you say applies, is just something they've managed to develop and evolve organically.

Anyway, this is done. You keep believing you're above it

Righto - only those select chosen few that have been to Hogwarts School of Witchraft and Wizardry could possibly understand and see the join.

and I'll keep creating stuff you want to buy.

Marketing and creating stuff? Demand, maybe - but they don't actually truly create stuff. Very few groups of people actually create stuff, these days. Little groups of various consultants talk about stuff, and get some people to do the actual work, then claim it's all them, man.

I don't rail against the notion that many things we choose or buy are heavily influenced by marketing - I just reject the notion that only the special, gifted people who are schooled in marketing, could possibly see the wires. Smoke and mirrors - s'all I'm saying.