hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Bargain! Let's see how it turns out 
1997 Marin Hawk Hill restomod - not one for the purists!
- Thread starter hawkhill97
- Start date
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Went out for a spin on the woods - slippy muddy roots are... certainly engaging... on a rigid fork! A very different experience to riding the same trail on a hardtail.
Thinking of swapping the stem and spacers for silver ones. I lent some silver rimmed wheels to a friend a while ago so might see if he's willing to swap them out too. While I don't mind the way it looks at the moment, when I look back at old photos I reckon it looked betterer with more silver kit hung on it.
I'm also considering getting the fork powder coated to match the original one (slightly orangey metallic red). The only thing holding me back is that I'm not that keen on the aesthetics of a straight blade fork (and it's a bit of a naff hi-ten one). But so far I haven't been able to find a suitable curved disc fork online.
Thinking of swapping the stem and spacers for silver ones. I lent some silver rimmed wheels to a friend a while ago so might see if he's willing to swap them out too. While I don't mind the way it looks at the moment, when I look back at old photos I reckon it looked betterer with more silver kit hung on it.
I'm also considering getting the fork powder coated to match the original one (slightly orangey metallic red). The only thing holding me back is that I'm not that keen on the aesthetics of a straight blade fork (and it's a bit of a naff hi-ten one). But so far I haven't been able to find a suitable curved disc fork online.
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Made a few tweaks to this one recently, as I felt it had lost a bit of the retro aesthetic in the conversion to disc brakes.
So fitted a silver stem, a nice wheelset with silver rims & hubs (thanks @Splatter Paint! They're ace and will save me bugging my friend for the silver wheelset I gave him ages ago), and painted the fork. Looks a lot more like "my bike" in its previous incarnations now
So fitted a silver stem, a nice wheelset with silver rims & hubs (thanks @Splatter Paint! They're ace and will save me bugging my friend for the silver wheelset I gave him ages ago), and painted the fork. Looks a lot more like "my bike" in its previous incarnations now
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Also swapped the tyres out for something a little less aggressive. The Maxxis high roller was overkill, these days I don't want to ride a rigid fork hard enough to get anywhere near the limits of grip! Tan walls would be lovely, but I had these in the shed and they will do nicely for now.
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Would obvs look nicer without the mudguards, but I sure do like staying dry 
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Made a few changes to this one recently.
While the bike rode really nicely with the 60mm stem / 780mm handlebars pictured above, I was repeatedly finding that they gave me maybe a little bit too much confidence to charge into the rough stuff, at which point the rigid fork would annihilate my wrists... getting older sucks!
So I thought about fitting a suspension fork, but quickly ran into issues.
*nerd mode on*
I do find that even a bog standard RS Tora or similar from the mid 2000s massively outperforms a 90s suspension fork in terms of stiffness and suspension quality, so I didn't particularly want to fit an old school 90s fork.
However, this bike handles beautifully with a 420mm axle-to-crown fork length, and pretty much all mid 2000s forks are quite a bit longer. I've dabbled with fitting longer forks to retro frames a few times, and have always ended up going back to something shorter, as it's messed up the handling. I've always presumed this is down to the BB being raised up, as lowering the handlebars hasn't fixed the issue.
*nerd mode off*
So, I thought I'd go back to a retro cockpit, and fitted the original 100mm stem / 580mm flat bars, with obligatory bar ends. The bike rides brilliantly like this, and the retro cockpit doesn't really start to feel dodgy on technical terrain until you're already hitting the limits of a fixed high seat post and a rigid fork.
Unsurprisingly, the bike also feels much, much better on rides which are mostly on-road rather than off-road - so much so that the Hawk Hill has now become my go-to bike for riding my local lanes, with the bonus that it's super fun and capable on the bridleways too. So I fitted some 2.0" semi-slick type tyres, and have been really enjoying using it as a road bike.
However, I'm still quite thoroughly conditioned (from spending much time riding more modern MTBs) to let the brakes off and charge through the rough stuff on descents, and while the rigid fork wasn't preventing me from riding any of the steep techy bits, it was still really hurting my wrists.
The alternative (sensible!) option of slowing down loads for the fun bit didn't really appeal either. So I had an idea:
*nerd mode on*
Could I lower a modern-ish air fork to give a travel of around 60mm and a sagged axle-to-crown height of around 420mm?
I got hold of a 100mm travel Tora XC air sprung 26" fork, which had an axle to crown height of 465mm - much too long.
The air spring on these forks can be lowered by inserting a spacer, and I just happened to have a 30mm spacer handy from a similar fork (on my wife's hardtail, where I upped the travel from 100mm to 130mm by removing the spacer).
Inserting the spacer brought the travel down to 70mm, and axle to crown height to 435mm, or around 425mm sagged - pretty much spot on.
However, I was having to put quite a lot of pressure in the air chamber to keep the fork from bottoming out, and it didn't feel quite right.
Thinking a bit more about it, lowering the fork this way had increased the volume of the negative air spring (it's a solo air fork, in which the positive and negative chambers equalise in pressure at full extension) relative to the positive spring, so that it was softer in the initial part of the travel, and less resistant to bottoming out at the end of the travel. To get around this it was necessary to run a really high pressure, which meant running very little sag indeed, which isn't ideal.
So I put some oil & grease in the positive air spring to reduce the volume, meaning that it ramps up more at the end of it's travel. This let me lower the air pressure to get reasonable sag, and the fork is now nice and progressive - active in the first half of the travel, but much firmer in the last third. Fortunately the lock-out also works well for climbing out the saddle on road sections.
*nerd mode off*
It worked pretty well - ended up with a really good match for the axle-to-crown height of the rigid fork (425mm sagged sus fork vs 420mm rigid), and just enough travel to keep my wrists happy without detracting from the retro charms of a 90s hardtail.
While the bike rode really nicely with the 60mm stem / 780mm handlebars pictured above, I was repeatedly finding that they gave me maybe a little bit too much confidence to charge into the rough stuff, at which point the rigid fork would annihilate my wrists... getting older sucks!
So I thought about fitting a suspension fork, but quickly ran into issues.
*nerd mode on*
I do find that even a bog standard RS Tora or similar from the mid 2000s massively outperforms a 90s suspension fork in terms of stiffness and suspension quality, so I didn't particularly want to fit an old school 90s fork.
However, this bike handles beautifully with a 420mm axle-to-crown fork length, and pretty much all mid 2000s forks are quite a bit longer. I've dabbled with fitting longer forks to retro frames a few times, and have always ended up going back to something shorter, as it's messed up the handling. I've always presumed this is down to the BB being raised up, as lowering the handlebars hasn't fixed the issue.
*nerd mode off*
So, I thought I'd go back to a retro cockpit, and fitted the original 100mm stem / 580mm flat bars, with obligatory bar ends. The bike rides brilliantly like this, and the retro cockpit doesn't really start to feel dodgy on technical terrain until you're already hitting the limits of a fixed high seat post and a rigid fork.
Unsurprisingly, the bike also feels much, much better on rides which are mostly on-road rather than off-road - so much so that the Hawk Hill has now become my go-to bike for riding my local lanes, with the bonus that it's super fun and capable on the bridleways too. So I fitted some 2.0" semi-slick type tyres, and have been really enjoying using it as a road bike.
However, I'm still quite thoroughly conditioned (from spending much time riding more modern MTBs) to let the brakes off and charge through the rough stuff on descents, and while the rigid fork wasn't preventing me from riding any of the steep techy bits, it was still really hurting my wrists.
The alternative (sensible!) option of slowing down loads for the fun bit didn't really appeal either. So I had an idea:
*nerd mode on*
Could I lower a modern-ish air fork to give a travel of around 60mm and a sagged axle-to-crown height of around 420mm?
I got hold of a 100mm travel Tora XC air sprung 26" fork, which had an axle to crown height of 465mm - much too long.
The air spring on these forks can be lowered by inserting a spacer, and I just happened to have a 30mm spacer handy from a similar fork (on my wife's hardtail, where I upped the travel from 100mm to 130mm by removing the spacer).
Inserting the spacer brought the travel down to 70mm, and axle to crown height to 435mm, or around 425mm sagged - pretty much spot on.
However, I was having to put quite a lot of pressure in the air chamber to keep the fork from bottoming out, and it didn't feel quite right.
Thinking a bit more about it, lowering the fork this way had increased the volume of the negative air spring (it's a solo air fork, in which the positive and negative chambers equalise in pressure at full extension) relative to the positive spring, so that it was softer in the initial part of the travel, and less resistant to bottoming out at the end of the travel. To get around this it was necessary to run a really high pressure, which meant running very little sag indeed, which isn't ideal.
So I put some oil & grease in the positive air spring to reduce the volume, meaning that it ramps up more at the end of it's travel. This let me lower the air pressure to get reasonable sag, and the fork is now nice and progressive - active in the first half of the travel, but much firmer in the last third. Fortunately the lock-out also works well for climbing out the saddle on road sections.
*nerd mode off*
It worked pretty well - ended up with a really good match for the axle-to-crown height of the rigid fork (425mm sagged sus fork vs 420mm rigid), and just enough travel to keep my wrists happy without detracting from the retro charms of a 90s hardtail.
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Here she is in her most recent guise.
If anyone else is hankering after a nice short travel modern-ish fork for their retro ride, I can definitely recommend the mods carried out above.
If anyone else is hankering after a nice short travel modern-ish fork for their retro ride, I can definitely recommend the mods carried out above.
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Oh, and the swap over to disc brakes continues to be brilliant, really glad I did this.
99% of the time I don't think about or notice the brakes at all, but on wet muddy mixed terrain rides, that's actually a very good thing, whereas on rim brakes I found myself thinking about braking performance and rim wear far too much!
99% of the time I don't think about or notice the brakes at all, but on wet muddy mixed terrain rides, that's actually a very good thing, whereas on rim brakes I found myself thinking about braking performance and rim wear far too much!
hawkhill97
Retro Guru
Managed to get out for another couple of local rides, this time a nice mix of bridleways, back roads, and a couple of "proper MTB" steep rocky bits.
The bike rides beautifully in it's latest build. I don't know if it's just because I learnt to ride a bike on similar (though less nice!) frames when I was a kid, but of all the bikes I've ridden as an adult, it's the one that feels most "just like a bike" - very neutral and natural in character, rather than being noticeably "racy", or "aggressive", "confident" or any of the other adjectives that spring to mind when I hop on something a bit different.
Unsurprisingly, it's great on the back lanes, particularly the ones with grass and gravel down the middle.
The idea was for this build to replace a drop bar MTB/gravel build I had been using for similar riding (currently for sale elsewhere on the forum). I wasn't sure if I'd miss the drop bars for the longer road sections, but it doesn't look like that's going to be an issue. It's definitely a slightly more upright ride, but still has a nice spirited feel to it (which, I have to admit, was a bit lacking on the road when I had it set up with a shorter stem and wide bars earlier on).
Off road on smooth bridleways, there's not a great deal to choose between the two, both are great
When things get a little steeper and rougher, the flat bars feel a lot more composed than the drop bars. Maybe a little less "exciting", but mostly in a good way! One big surprise was that I didn't miss having a dropper post at all - on the drop bar MTB it'd be seat down for all the off-road descents, and possibly increase the fork travel a bit to raise the front end too. On this build I was perfectly happy keeping the seat at full road pedalling height - the long stem & narrow bars do reign in the speed I'm happy to carry a fair bit compared to a more modern cockpit, but that probably keeps things within the limitation of a high seat post.
Does this mean the suspension fork is not really needed then? Well, yes and no. It's definitely not "needed" to get down anything I'm likely to ride on this bike, and probably won't even make me that much quicker. I've currently got it set up pretty hard (only used about 55mm of travel this ride according to my zip tie), and handling wise it doesn't feel all that different from riding a rigid fork. The two main noticeable differences are zero wrist pain, and having a get-out-of-jail-free card if you mess up and hit a root/rock harder than intended.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if I've kind of forgotten how to properly ride a rigid fork on a MTB - too much conditioning to lay off the brakes as much as possible from improving my trail riding over the last decade!
Really pleased to have given this old friend a new lease of life, especially now that it's in a form where it's probably actually going to get ridden quite a lot, as it's very suitable for my local "from the front door" riding.
The bike rides beautifully in it's latest build. I don't know if it's just because I learnt to ride a bike on similar (though less nice!) frames when I was a kid, but of all the bikes I've ridden as an adult, it's the one that feels most "just like a bike" - very neutral and natural in character, rather than being noticeably "racy", or "aggressive", "confident" or any of the other adjectives that spring to mind when I hop on something a bit different.
Unsurprisingly, it's great on the back lanes, particularly the ones with grass and gravel down the middle.
The idea was for this build to replace a drop bar MTB/gravel build I had been using for similar riding (currently for sale elsewhere on the forum). I wasn't sure if I'd miss the drop bars for the longer road sections, but it doesn't look like that's going to be an issue. It's definitely a slightly more upright ride, but still has a nice spirited feel to it (which, I have to admit, was a bit lacking on the road when I had it set up with a shorter stem and wide bars earlier on).
Off road on smooth bridleways, there's not a great deal to choose between the two, both are great
When things get a little steeper and rougher, the flat bars feel a lot more composed than the drop bars. Maybe a little less "exciting", but mostly in a good way! One big surprise was that I didn't miss having a dropper post at all - on the drop bar MTB it'd be seat down for all the off-road descents, and possibly increase the fork travel a bit to raise the front end too. On this build I was perfectly happy keeping the seat at full road pedalling height - the long stem & narrow bars do reign in the speed I'm happy to carry a fair bit compared to a more modern cockpit, but that probably keeps things within the limitation of a high seat post.
Does this mean the suspension fork is not really needed then? Well, yes and no. It's definitely not "needed" to get down anything I'm likely to ride on this bike, and probably won't even make me that much quicker. I've currently got it set up pretty hard (only used about 55mm of travel this ride according to my zip tie), and handling wise it doesn't feel all that different from riding a rigid fork. The two main noticeable differences are zero wrist pain, and having a get-out-of-jail-free card if you mess up and hit a root/rock harder than intended.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if I've kind of forgotten how to properly ride a rigid fork on a MTB - too much conditioning to lay off the brakes as much as possible from improving my trail riding over the last decade!
Really pleased to have given this old friend a new lease of life, especially now that it's in a form where it's probably actually going to get ridden quite a lot, as it's very suitable for my local "from the front door" riding.
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