The contemporary value of 'retro'...

[Anthony]

Depends what you buy it for doesn't it? Its obviously not a rider, but if it was, its very bad value for money. As a retro collectors piece, which I guess is where its headed then its worth whatever the winner wants to pay. Is it good value? No, no matter what its intended use. Is it worth it? Only to the winner.

if this bike’s value is less than £1,875, then Roberts and every other independent frame builder (including Rody, Chris de Kerf etc) should shut up shop right now

They're building modern bikes with modern gear and geometry that will be ridden on todays trails... Totally incomparable.

I disagree with you in both respects:

1. "obviously not a rider" - why on earth not? I should have thought it would be a brilliant bike to ride. Chance would be a fine thing as far as I'm concerned, but if it was mine it would get ridden - very carefully I freely admit, but it would get ridden, you can be sure of that.

2. "totally incomparable" - I was comparing a 2008 rigid DOGSBOLX with this Ritchey. What are you saying, because the Roberts would have disc brakes and this has cantis, therefore they're not comparable? What else is so different? I don't think a good rider on this Ritchey would be too far behind a 2008 Roberts over any given stretch of open cross country. One aspect in which they truly are incomparable though is in pride of ownership - there the Ritchey would win hands down.

 

[rienster]

I would have to say this is overpriced if you ar looking for value for money. I've always lusted after one. Especially in red/white/blue combo. But at these kind of prices I'm not even considering buying one. Just to compare (always a bad idea), I bought a look mtb frame of the bay a few weeks back for just over 40 Euros. It has the same tubing (tange prestige) and a similar geometry. I'm thinking that I should be able to build this frame up pretty nicely for under a 1000 Euros, easily.

So, value for money I'd have to say overpriced. But it is a pretty special bike. And I think that if this is your dream bike, it is a fair price to pay.

 

[holden]

Limiting the criteria for "value" could be more fruitful for the discussion. Modern-Retro comparisons are somewhat moot, quarrelsome.

How much have other P-23's sold for? Relative to other higher-end retro bikes, it seems a smidge high in (market) price, but not excessive.

 

[perry]

"Are today trails any different than 15/20 years ago"



i think of it the same as paying 20k for a mk1 lotus cortina , at first 20 grand sounds a lot but its the same as a basic mondeo .

were led to believe the stuff we bought 5 mins ago is old tat and the stuff available to us in 5 mins will be the answer to all of our problems . when really there isnt anything wrong with what was available many years ago .

the ritchey was a bargain at any money , because it was money not spent on an 09 full susser to be ridden on dirt perfectly suitable to a rigid frame 20 years ago , that in 2010 will be superceded by 2011 anyway

 

[FairfaxPat]

I was sitting in my local coffee shop in Fairfax the other day when a biking buddy came in and dragged me out to see his newest purchase-a fairly mint condition Ritchey P-21, serial number 012-that he had just purchased at a yard sale for $125.00!!!!

 

[Martin]

Thats a nice price for a P21. Such a shame Holland hadnt got a that big mountainbikescene in the 80's begin 90's. Exotic was just for the people with way too much money and we Dutchmen seem to be how you call not spending money likely


The p23 looks very nice, and if I had loads of money I would have bought it for the price

 

[Carsten]

don't forget that such a bike very very rarely is for sale in Europe and in particular in Germany. Thus all the potential buyers that before did not want or were able to buy one in the US had a rare opportunity with less shipping and customs hassle or maybe even the chance to pick it up in person. That's certainly worth a few hundred or more Euros. Assuming the high bidder is in Europe...

I am pretty sure that the yellow Potts on ebay Germany a while ago went for more than it would have gone on ebay US. That one stayed in Europe.

Beside that i think it's pretty well known that the monetary value of "collectors items" is not determined by rational considerations.

Carsten

 

[yo-eddy]

Beside that i think it's pretty well known that the monetary value of "collectors items" is not determined by rational considerations.
Carsten

well spoken and so true

 

[gump]

yep Carsten, nail on head. This is a collectors item. Not sure anyone would pay that much then ride it hard. Why would you?

Was it good value? Only the buyer can answer. But the fact that there were two people willing to pay that suggests he can get his money back.

Looked at the other way, its definately not a bargain! Easier to say that.

 

[Russell]

Are today trails any different than 15/20 years ago :roll: :?: talking CC here...... if you decide more than 60mm of suspensionis not your thing the golden oldies (like a YO) will function more then well nowadays me thinks.

Well, yes actually, I ride the same trails I rode 20yrs ago and 20yrs of thousands of MTB tyres has taken away much of the top soil leaving trails more rocky, rooty and technical than they used to be. I still ride them on a '93 Zaskar, but I ride them faster and smoother on my '08 Duster.

MARKETING has moved on - as proved time after time, cantis work, V-brakes work, Maguras overwork, disks work. Marketing moves on.

Yep, you're quite right, there have been no advances in technology over the past 20 yrs, its all hype. Cantilevers do work just as well as discs... Fact.

I disagree with you in both respects:

:shock:



I love my old bikes, I feel pretty safe in saying that I've owned and ridden a wider spread of bikes (age wise) than most of the other users of this forum but I'm not foolish enough to try to deny that modern bikes are better or that a retro bike is as capable as a modern one. My '84 Stumpjumper was fun to ride off road, my '93 Zaskar a blast, but no where near as good as my '08 Duster. Really, I appreciate the Zealots, but a little realism doesn't go amiss now and again.

Like I said in my OP, "As a retro collectors piece, which I guess is where its headed then its worth whatever the winner wants to pay. Is it good value? No, no matter what its intended use. Is it worth it? Only to the winner." Bang on about retro vs Modern all you like, but that ain't the issue. Oranges and apples my friends, different fruit.