rock lobster.. us/uk ?

[Anthony]

you;re confusing the issue AGAIN!
is UK rock lobster the same quality as US? easy answer no!. US is waaay higher. thats the initial question & thats the truthful answer!
this ISNT a question of taiwan or far east Vs anyone else. currently most mass produced stuff comes out of far east. maybe in time the far east WILL have quality as ultra high end as companies like Jones, black sheep, serotta, IF, seven, vanilla & US rock lobster etc etc. currently it doesnt.

You refered to my frame as 'tat' :evil: , I have confused no issue.

Paul Sadoff is obviously happy with the arrangement with Merlin, or he wouldn't continue it. I believe he is one of the finest hand-builders anywhere, but that's down to fillet-brazing which is a whole different issue. Once you get into a volume-production mode, I would back far eastern factories over western factories.

If you would also call a steel Stumpjumper tat, then you're saying virtually everything except one-offs is tat. But if anyone thinks that a Merlin Rock Lobster 853 is tat, but that a Stumpy isn't, then as Ernestrome says that's just a triumph of marketing, without any substance. The quality of workmanship is the same, the tubes on the Rock Lobster are superior.

And just to answer somebody else who was suggesting that mail order firms have 853 frames made out of a cheaper version of 853, I have had confirmation from Reynolds that there is only one grade of 853 on the market. All 853 is made in Birmingham.

 

[Andy R]

I've never had (nor ever will have) the sort of money that a true "custom" frame would cost me, but even if I did have I very much doubt that I'd be ordering one.

I don't see or understand what all this "taiwanese welded tat" attitude is based on - I have three Rocky Mountains (all welded in Canada) and three Konas (all welded in Taiwan).
Out of all of the frames the nicest welds (from an aesthetic point of view) are on the '95 Columbus Max Explosif frame. I can't see how it could be improved, wherever or by whoever it was welded. It's the nicest riding frame of the lot too, I wish I could find another one.

Would a Teesdale welded Kona Hot be any better in any way? I very much doubt it.
But then, compared to most of you guys here, I'm a bit of a philistine when it comes to the finer aspects of bike art .

 

[scant]

you;re confusing the issue AGAIN!
is UK rock lobster the same quality as US? easy answer no!. US is waaay higher. thats the initial question & thats the truthful answer!
this ISNT a question of taiwan or far east Vs anyone else. currently most mass produced stuff comes out of far east. maybe in time the far east WILL have quality as ultra high end as companies like Jones, black sheep, serotta, IF, seven, vanilla & US rock lobster etc etc. currently it doesnt.

Once you get into a volume-production mode, I would back far eastern factories over western factories.

If you would also call a steel Stumpjumper tat, then you're saying virtually everything except one-offs is tat.

yup, thats about the size of it volume production is for winter jalopy bikes only

 

[scant]

I've never had (nor ever will have) the sort of money that a true "custom" frame would cost me, but even if I did have I very much doubt that I'd be ordering one.

I don't see or understand what all this "taiwanese welded tat" attitude is based on - I have three Rocky Mountains (all welded in Canada) and three Konas (all welded in Taiwan).
Out of all of the frames the nicest welds (from an aesthetic point of view) are on the '95 Columbus Max Explosif frame. I can't see how it could be improved, wherever or by whoever it was welded. It's the nicest riding frame of the lot too, I wish I could find another one.

Would a Teesdale welded Kona Hot be any better in any way? I very much doubt it.
But then, compared to most of you guys here, I'm a bit of a philistine when it comes to the finer aspects of bike art .

welding is just a tiny, tiny part of overall frame constuction.

 

[Andy R]

welding is just a tiny, tiny part of overall frame constuction.

I disagree - it is just a part, but a tiny, tiny part? I don't think so - we're talking construction here and not design, which is something else altogether.
With a steel tube structure (like a bicycle frame) the main concerns in the construction stage (as far as I can see it anyway) are tube preparation, alignment, welding and post-weld inspection.

Or maybe I just have this all wrong.

 

[scant]

welding is just a tiny, tiny part of overall frame constuction.

I disagree - it is just a part, but a tiny, tiny part? I don't think so - we're talking construction here and not design, which is something else altogether.
With a steel tube structure (like a bicycle frame) the main concerns in the construction stage (as far as I can see it anyway) are tube preparation, alignment, welding and post-weld inspection.

Or maybe I just have this all wrong.

sorry, my short rushed answers arent helping
gary helfrich once said that you cant judge a weld purely by appearance. the final pass is all you can visibly see. this is in reference to your comparison between your kona & rocky mountain, they might both look good. but the time & care taken to get to that stage might vary massively between the 2 brands... hence the weld is just a tiny part...

but hey this is going off topic somewhat... classic net thread I spose

 

[Wold Ranger]

Taiwan V Custom

Think your're wasting your keyboard time a bit Scant here? we both know the differences and they are major and worth the extra Shekel, one point never mentioned is the guarantees that also come with a Custom frame, many will repair/replace, even after crash damage for free, with just the payment for a repaint. So many of these are a frame for life and can be re finished many many times, not just thrown away when they get tired or damaged.

 

[Jones]

Possibly the snobbiest thread I've ever read on here :shock:

Of course there's a difference but calling EVERYTHING that isn't low production/custom built 'tat only fit for winter jalopy bikes is a bit over the top' :?

 

[scant]

Possibly the snobbiest thread I've ever read on here :shock:

Of course there's a difference but calling EVERYTHING that isn't low production/custom built 'tat only fit for winter jalopy bikes is a bit over the top' :?

yeh, made me laff as I typed it
chill people, I ride tat too remember

 

[Jones]

Possibly the snobbiest thread I've ever read on here :shock:

Of course there's a difference but calling EVERYTHING that isn't low production/custom built 'tat only fit for winter jalopy bikes is a bit over the top' :?

yeh, made me laff as I typed it
chill people, I ride tat too remember

I can't laugh sorry, I've got flu and laughing starts the coughing and you don't want to know what I'm coughing up at the moment actually it looks a bit like some of the welding on those far eastern frames you like so much