rock lobster.. us/uk ?
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Wold Ranger
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Tat
I knew they were under £50 imported, but that is Silly and explains a lot!!! (Tat definitely qualfies then!) I read an article somewhere recently that sited the 853 tubing used in Taiwan was not US 853, but a similar spec, licensed to have the 853 badge put on it by Reynolds! Proper 853 doesn't rust, this stuff does!
I had an original 853 (& 631) frame bead blast stripped and left them both out in the garden for 6 months- neither went rusty, just sort of a bit duller.
i must admit I have ridden Cotics, Dialled bikes and On ones etc and they feel no better than cheaper no name frames and certainly not in the same league as say a DeKerf, Yates or Roberts. I have a Paul Grisley Look and that rides really sweetly, by comparison.
High end bikes always get rubbished by those who can't afford, I know the amount of stick I get about some of mine!
I knew they were under £50 imported, but that is Silly and explains a lot!!! (Tat definitely qualfies then!) I read an article somewhere recently that sited the 853 tubing used in Taiwan was not US 853, but a similar spec, licensed to have the 853 badge put on it by Reynolds! Proper 853 doesn't rust, this stuff does!
I had an original 853 (& 631) frame bead blast stripped and left them both out in the garden for 6 months- neither went rusty, just sort of a bit duller.
i must admit I have ridden Cotics, Dialled bikes and On ones etc and they feel no better than cheaper no name frames and certainly not in the same league as say a DeKerf, Yates or Roberts. I have a Paul Grisley Look and that rides really sweetly, by comparison.
High end bikes always get rubbished by those who can't afford, I know the amount of stick I get about some of mine!
I've been fairly quick with my 1 line responses on this thread, so I'll elaborate my 2p. I have several friends riding on one, cotics etc. they're good, soild mostly dependable bikes.
so to fully answer the original question, as ever its always hard to justify the waay higher prices of top end quality... & certainly in more recent years that gap is closing. but I'll stick to my original response, the UK is tat compared to the US originals; theres a massive difference in price & quality between the 2.
so to fully answer the original question, as ever its always hard to justify the waay higher prices of top end quality... & certainly in more recent years that gap is closing. but I'll stick to my original response, the UK is tat compared to the US originals; theres a massive difference in price & quality between the 2.
Taiwanese frames are not 'machine-built'. No robots are involved, that's almost impossible in the case of bike frames, they're not spot welded like certain automotive fixings. They're simply hand-built by workers in a big factory, which is efficient partly because of economies of scale and partly because of the famous work ethic. If anyone here thinks a US or European-built car is of higher build quality than a far eastern one, then good luck to you.
Brant Richards said a few years that an Inbred 853 left the factory gate for £38, but that was before shipping and duty costs. Certainly British frame prices are far higher than US and carry a large profit margin, which is probably the sole reason why there are so many british companies marketing steel frames. Which is a good thing.
And as for Reynolds, which is a British company based in Birmingham, I think it is 525 that they now have made in the far east, and they are quite open about it. Most people who contract work to far east sub-contractors find that the quality achieved is at least as high, see above. I doubt whether 853 is made in big enough quantities for two supply sources to be worthwhile. Have you any evidence?
Brant Richards said a few years that an Inbred 853 left the factory gate for £38, but that was before shipping and duty costs. Certainly British frame prices are far higher than US and carry a large profit margin, which is probably the sole reason why there are so many british companies marketing steel frames. Which is a good thing.
And as for Reynolds, which is a British company based in Birmingham, I think it is 525 that they now have made in the far east, and they are quite open about it. Most people who contract work to far east sub-contractors find that the quality achieved is at least as high, see above. I doubt whether 853 is made in big enough quantities for two supply sources to be worthwhile. Have you any evidence?
Anthony":2jsbi8p8 said:
you;re confusing the issue AGAIN!
is UK rock lobster the same quality as US? easy answer no!. US is waaay higher. thats the initial question & thats the truthful answer!
this ISNT a question of taiwan or far east Vs anyone else. currently most mass produced stuff comes out of far east. maybe in time the far east WILL have quality as ultra high end as companies like Jones, black sheep, serotta, IF, seven, vanilla & US rock lobster etc etc. currently it doesnt.
Wold Ranger
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Far Eastern Tat
To be honest there are many issues here
1. I'm patriotic so if I can buy a UK built frame I will-keep the jobs and the money over here I say!
2. The Bike mags are very guilty of hyping a lot of the far Eastern frames as being as good as the UK/US/Euro frames to help promote sales from their advertising customers, they ain't as good period. MBR recently did a Ti hardtail shoot out, where they rated the Charge as best and the Cove second but rubbished the Cotic and particularly Seven, needless to say Litespeed/Merlin had the sense not to submit an entry! To say that a Charge was as good as a LS or Merlin was plain daft, the frames are a full pound heavier and a third of the tensile strength. The strange thing about the test was the bikes overall weights didn't match the frame weights with identical kit? i.e ligher frames weighed heaviest overall :?
3. The Tailwanese bikes don't do made to measure
4. They don't have the quality of finish.
5. Their guarantees are worthless.
6. They break a lot more regularly than the top quality custom frames.
7 They are generally a lot heavier (RL are ok here tho)
8 They are just not as nice to ride or own.
9 If you were given £2000 to spend on a bike frame, but were not allowed to keep the change, what would you buy? :twisted: really? Ur a bigger fool then!
To be honest there are many issues here
1. I'm patriotic so if I can buy a UK built frame I will-keep the jobs and the money over here I say!
2. The Bike mags are very guilty of hyping a lot of the far Eastern frames as being as good as the UK/US/Euro frames to help promote sales from their advertising customers, they ain't as good period. MBR recently did a Ti hardtail shoot out, where they rated the Charge as best and the Cove second but rubbished the Cotic and particularly Seven, needless to say Litespeed/Merlin had the sense not to submit an entry! To say that a Charge was as good as a LS or Merlin was plain daft, the frames are a full pound heavier and a third of the tensile strength. The strange thing about the test was the bikes overall weights didn't match the frame weights with identical kit? i.e ligher frames weighed heaviest overall :?
3. The Tailwanese bikes don't do made to measure
4. They don't have the quality of finish.
5. Their guarantees are worthless.
6. They break a lot more regularly than the top quality custom frames.
7 They are generally a lot heavier (RL are ok here tho)
8 They are just not as nice to ride or own.
9 If you were given £2000 to spend on a bike frame, but were not allowed to keep the change, what would you buy? :twisted: really? Ur a bigger fool then!
If it's custom, truely custom, then it's worth $ like Us RL. If we're comparing two frames that are built in taiwan anyway then I think people are suckers if they're paying custom type money for a brand name. I'd happily buy a merlin RL, on-one, pastey etc, i don't think there's any chance of me mistaking it for a boutique custom frame.
It can't be too long before someone in taiwan starts making custom frames to measure in some corner of one of the factories.
It can't be too long before someone in taiwan starts making custom frames to measure in some corner of one of the factories.
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