Motor trade question?

[Chopper the ex Copper]

A service will cover the replacement,adjustment and inspection of a set list of components as dictated by the manufacturer (or in the aftermarket the ICME standard covers servicing, and virtually all garages work to it). Unless the item that caused the fire can be demonstrated to be something related to the service (or prior repair) then I don't think he's got a leg to stand on. It like going in for to have new wipers fitted, and then complaining next day that it's the garages fault when a wheel falls off. You really need to know what caused the fire before any conclusions be drawn - in no way can it be automatically assumed the servicing or repairing agent is in any way responsible.

To be fair an engine seizure and fire don't normally go hand in hand so it need..proper investigating. In order to seize an engine these days a driver needs to persistently ignore both the coolant temp gauge and oil pressure warning light, so it likely your chum is culpable to at least some degree.

But in short, the account doesn't entirely make sense. We need more info.

I say this as someone who ran their own part time mobile mechanics business from 1996 until last year, C&G in automotive maintenance, servicing and repair.

 

[daj]

A service will cover the replacement,adjustment and inspection of a set list of components as dictated by the manufacturer (or in the aftermarket the ICME standard covers servicing, and virtually all garages work to it). Unless the item that caused the fire can be demonstrated to be something related to the service (or prior repair) then I don't think he's got a leg to stand on. It like going in for to have new wipers fitted, and then complaining next day that it's the garages fault when a wheel falls off. You really need to know what caused the fire before any conclusions be drawn - in no way can it be automatically assumed the servicing or repairing agent is in any way responsible.

I say this as someone who ran their own part time mobile mechanics business from 1996 until last year.

It's like Chinese whispers ! If you re-read the original post. The car went to the garage because it was using lots of oil and making noises + not running correctly. THEY concluded the mapping was wrong (not remapped but actually just gone out of sync ). They said once they cleaned the engine off there was no leak, And gave it a service concluding that it was all good road tested and ready to go?

It's a bit like taking your bike to the shop because your disc brakes feel spongy , shop says there fine so you take it up your local trail then hit a bloody great tree because your brakes fail ....would you not go back to the shop?

 

[xerxes]

Re:

would you not go back to the shop?

That rather depends on how hard you hit the tree.

 

[jimplops]

Unless the ecu is remapped the software can't go out of sync, sensors like the air flow sensor can drift which effect the running, but if it was using oil, then either a breather was off or there was wear within the engine.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

A service will cover the replacement,adjustment and inspection of a set list of components as dictated by the manufacturer (or in the aftermarket the ICME standard covers servicing, and virtually all garages work to it). Unless the item that caused the fire can be demonstrated to be something related to the service (or prior repair) then I don't think he's got a leg to stand on. It like going in for to have new wipers fitted, and then complaining next day that it's the garages fault when a wheel falls off. You really need to know what caused the fire before any conclusions be drawn - in no way can it be automatically assumed the servicing or repairing agent is in any way responsible.

I say this as someone who ran their own part time mobile mechanics business from 1996 until last year.

It's like Chinese whispers ! If you re-read the original post. The car went to the garage because it was using lots of oil and making noises + not running correctly. THEY concluded the mapping was wrong (not remapped but actually just gone out of sync ). They said once they cleaned the engine off there was no leak, And gave it a service concluding that it was all good road tested and ready to go?

It's a bit like taking your bike to the shop because your disc brakes feel spongy , shop says there fine so you take it up your local trail then hit a bloody great tree because your brakes fail ....would you not go back to the shop?

But that's not entire the story. There's this business with the mapping, which is utter rubbish. It doesn't quite make sense, hence me suggesting more info is required, as you can see in my original post where I use the words "we need more info." Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups.

You seem pretty clued up. Instead of nay saying people who are qualified (quit..literally qualified) to comment, then perhaps you can tell us, without the benefit.of the vehicle in front of you, what caused it to catch fire and almost simultaneously seize the engine.

I'm a moderately qualified spanner man and I'm telling you that a service is unlikely to cause a vehicle to catch fire, but with the cavaet that we really need more info as the account given is 3rd hand and doesn't entirely make sense. So, perhaps you oh Oracle, with your most awesome and wondrous sized intellect, with your thousand of hours working on vehicles as diverse as moped and 7.5t Ivecos could give us the benefit of a small smidgen of your awe inspiring, biblical grade insight and tell us what the problem was then?

 

[daj]

He just called me !! It's Been given a quick polish and all is good!!

 

[highlandsflyer]

I thought that was the best solution! Well done.

I don't think any garage would send you out with a non specific guarantee on basic work done.

Faults known to a manufacturer are usually recalled, other than that your original warranty period is your main hope for getting things looked at for free.

Once out of warranty, I see no reason the BMW dealer would not look at it, it is perfectly normal for people to add after market exhausts.

I agree there is no way to pin any problem on the specialist, they presumably gave a full list of works done and any guarantee on those works.

Get a second opinion and negotiate with the insurers.

Used low mileage engines for very little knocking around, car could end up better than before out of this.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

Once out of warranty, I see no reason the BMW dealer would not look at it, it is perfectly normal for people to add after market exhausts.

Indeed, when you're charging over £80 and hour + VAT you'll look at a cabbage if the owner wants you to.

 

[RadNomad]

Re:

These kind of discussions are unlikely to reveal a correct assessment because there is more conjecture than facts. Having been in the official BMW Aftersales business for 25 years, across 6 countries and at every level from Apprentice Technician to National Aftersales Director with all the requisite qualifications, i have come across virtually every kind of problematic customer case and can give some response based on the limited info given.

It is very unlikely that the BMW/MINI Authorized dealer "wouldn't touch it". What is more likely is that the owner was not willing to pay the costs of having it fixed properly. The main Dealer may have indicated that a quotation would need to include returning the car to original specification (removing non-original boy racer mods), something the owner either didn't want to do, or didn't want to pay for. An authorized Dealer will generally not turn jobs away (i have never done this nor known it to happen), but the main Dealer is obliged to conduct work to correct standards and specifications, which may sometimes cost more.

Authorized Dealers are not always perfect and mistakes or misdiagnosis etc can happen. We do not live in a perfect world. However you generally do get what you pay for. Authorized Dealers have access to and will generally make use of the right techncial data, repair processes, specialized equipment, properly trained staff, genuine parts and are expected to operate to responsible ethics and standards, often audited. This does not mean you won't find cowboys at Authorized Dealers and it does not mean that independant workshops are all working to lower standards than Authorized Dealers, but the RISK of a substandard repair is higher when using workshops of indeterminate pedigree and qualification. Also the RISK of a conflict not being resolved in a satisfactory, customer oriented way is also higher from what i have seen over the years. The range of quality and reliability at independant workshops varies wildly from superb to utter rogues. You pay your money and take your choice.

If the information in the OP really is correct then the car was almost certainly misdiagnosed by the independant workshop. "Mapping of the car somehow not correct" (already a very dubious statement as suggested already by someone) will not cause "drinking oil". If the engine was consuming oil (external leak or internal consumption) - and rattling - then there was a mechanical problem of some kind in the engine or a closely related ancilliary component. Remapping the engine management characteristics was never going to fix an oil consumption problem. Without the car in front of me i cannot say anything cast in stone but the probability that the car was misdiagnosed and not rectified at all is very high. The independant workshop would appear to have let the customer down.

The owner probably has two choices.
1. Accept his fate as it stands and move on. or
2. Have the cause of damage professionally determined by a high quality and qualified workshop, then if the conclusion bares a clear correllation to the original documented customer complaint made at the independant workshop, proceed to lean on the independant workshop for compensation and/or rectification, legally if necessary and if the owner really thinks it's worth the hassle (it probably isn't!).

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

Racking my brains, now I've recovered from last nights fugue of Perroni and Laphroaig, the only time in my experience that a garage might refuse to work on a car is if it's been dangerously modified, or in a dangerous condition. Last thing they wan't is to get their fingerprints all over it for it to then catch fire...

The biggest problem our chap might face is that fire has a tendency to obliterate the evidence of it's cause - even a highly skilled investigator might not be able to identify which component is responsible for the blaze, and he could spend a lot of money on such an engineer for no result whtsoever.