MBK Special pro…thoughts?

[mikestr]

Great question. So this is exactly what I was posting about that unfortunately raised some dust (and Guinessisgoodforyou please contact me offline so we can sort this out). I should be acquiring the French brochure for 1984 as soon as it takes to reach me. But the 1984 US edition is already accessible online at a couple of sites, like: http://labibleduvelocataloguesmotobecane.blogspot.com/p/motobecane-1983.html or https://velobase.com/CatalogScans/Motobecane/1984_Motobecane_catalog.pdf

I'm not sure how the US export models line up with UK. For example, is the #2 model (from the top) called "Le Champion" or "C5"? Can anyone here answer this?

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

Thanks for the offer Mike all good here

 

[mikestr]

Thanks--much appreciated.

 

[mikestr]

I've seen many attempts to correlate the European and US models but many of then just don't line up. I've mentioned Ben Lawee before, the US importer and sort of a legendary figure over here. He in effect created some of the export models. "Le Champion" came equipped for a number of years with a Campy Record kit and Universal sidepull brakes (to keep the cost down) and often the same frame as the TOTL Team Champion but in a different color, e.g.,silver v. the TC's orange--made famous by Ocana's TDF victory in '73 (riding a Gemini painted orange). In France there was an all-Campy-equipped "Tour de France" model but that was actually top of the line, along with a model with an all-French kit. The second model down, the C5, had Huret derailleurs--never seen here. But this is just the beginning of the problem.

Here is a completely original 1975 Le Champion for sale here locally: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/woodacre-motobecane-lechampion-1975/7689379894.html

The original tubular wheels can be seen in the background. The brake hoods are replacements, perhaps the chain (though probably not). He's lowered the price $100. It's been for sale for a year, maybe more. It's a really fine bicycle waiting for a loving home.

I could swear that I have an old Motobecane US price sheet in my files. I'll check this weekend.

 

[mikestr]

Gents, I guess I don't have that old Motobecane price list anymore. But I have just received the aforementioned and long-sought 1984 French brochure. It is quite interesting (to those who like such things), as it fills in some gaps in the model history at the very end. I can scan and post it if allowed and anyone is interested. This brochure has not been posted anywhere else.

 

[Woz]

- I would be interested flicking through it if it states anything about the custom build unit.

For help with the archive / on-line resources, I believe @mk one is the man.

 

[mikestr]

It does, a little bit. There is a 1981 dealer document I've seen that says exactly which models can be customized. One thing to keep in mind is the difference in both models and options between France and (probably) other markets. In France, the "SP," sold in the US (and UK?) as the Team Champion, the only listed size is "sur measure," IOW, bespoke sizing. In the US standard sizing applied. I don't know if any customization was available here; it certainly would have hugely prolonged delivery times, and the US importer, Ben Lawee, probably insisted that this not be the only option.

I'll scan the brochure and get it uploaded.

 

[Woz]

Perhaps geeky - one thing I'm curious about is to what extent the export models where adapted to the local market.

We know already that "things related" to the frame remained French threaded, but what about the parts? I understood that Peugeot did fall in line rather early for things like freewheels, pedals, hub OLN and axle widths for their export bikes, even to Belgium. I have seen no documentation nor any kind of definitive dates, but for sure with Motobecane / MBK it must have been around this period. MTB, BMX and Bi-Cross I think was ISO from the word go (perhaps apart from some low end stuff).

 

[mikestr]

Good question! I own exactly one Motobecane, which I imported from France, so I'm not the person to ask, though I think I know one who is. As for Peugeot, I can say that it was a mixture: export frames were metric throughout--tubing diameter and HS and BB threading--but starting in the early 80s they reamed the steerer to 22.2mm to accept standard stems, and they began to supply BSC-threaded rear hubs and freewheels. Here I have firsthand experience. Motobecane probably did something similar, except that they were known for Swiss BB threading, also metric 35 x 1, but reversed on the fixed cup. The years and models that used Swiss threading? The brochures just don't say, but I know that it made it over here, so I assume that the UK also got Swiss-threaded BBs for some period of time.

 

[Woz]

Think you accidently said "adjustable cup" instead of "fixed cup".

It's a really oddity this Swiss thing. I've not wrenched on an export Motobecane, I assume it was only for mass produced bikes.

https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2019/02/whats-swiss-threaded-bottom-bracket.html?m=1