Dawes Tartan Tourist / Clubman

[keithglos]

Re:

Hi Drew,

Dawes had to produce what they could sell. Miraculously they did survive. I remember Peter Parkes, MD of Sun/Parkes coming round himself to find a few orders. If a frame was 531 butted throughout it was probably top end, but many makers used 3 main tubes so that they could confuse potential purchasers.
At that time a top end bike was £60 to £80, adding up the parts.

Raleigh invented terms like 20/30 steel to give a name to their heavy cold rolled and welded tubing, like Peugeot "Carbolite" usually referred to as carboheavy.

Keith

 

[DrewSavage]

Thanks Keith. Just collected it, and am still excited!

Apart from the very modern stem and handlebars, it seems to be almost completely original.

A 4 speed Benelux derailleur on the back, a rod-operated Benelux Cyclo front derailleur (no idea how those even work!), GB Coureur Hidiminium brakes, Williams cottered cranks, and the frame sticker says Reynolds 531 butted frame, forks and stays. The headset is also the original Alatet one.

The wheels have Bayliss-Wiley hubs, which look original, and what look to me like Rigida Chromix rims which probably aren't.

But if it hails from 1955 it's in great condition - the odd scrape or blemish but it's clearly a bike that's been ridden and well looked-after.

Is all that lot worth anything? For insurance value and so on? I have no idea about bikes much more than 35 years old. And I know that just because something is old, and not particularly common, doesn't mean it's necessarily valuable.

Really I was just after the frame when I bought it, but as the only original parts missing are the handlebars, brake levers, gear lever and possibly the rims, it seems a shame to put anything more modern on it.

I feel like I'm on Antiques Roadshow.

 

[keithglos]

Re:

First the front changer: the vertical rod turns about 90 degrees, the knob on top helps, basically you just brush your hand against it forward to change up.

As an example of price structure at the time a bike retailing for £25 would net the dealer £5, the purchase tax £4 so the maker gets £16. The purchase tax was 20% on trade price.

This reminds me of a friend who restored a Morris Minor, and when he showed me his handiwork all I could say was "I remember when they were rubbish".

I am sure you have quite a decent ridable bike, but at the time Dawes were just about in survival mode. Sun/Parkes and Carlton didn't make it.

Sometimes I wish this site didn't trigger these memories.

Keith

 

[Robbied196]

Re: Re:

First the front changer: the vertical rod turns about 90 degrees, the knob on top helps, basically you just brush your hand against it forward to change up.

As an example of price structure at the time a bike retailing for £25 would net the dealer £5, the purchase tax £4 so the maker gets £16. The purchase tax was 20% on trade price.

This reminds me of a friend who restored a Morris Minor, and when he showed me his handiwork all I could say was "I remember when they were rubbish".

I am sure you have quite a decent ridable bike, but at the time Dawes were just about in survival mode. Sun/Parkes and Carlton didn't make it.

Sometimes I wish this site didn't trigger these memories.

Keith

Its good to read the interesting points you make, even if some of the memories aren't so great its good to keep the history alive. I must admit when I started going out with the local club in the mid 70s, and numbers had seriously declined from the mid 60's. We would be lucky if 10 riders turned up, assuming the sun was shining! I guess it creates an aura of the 50s and 60s being the golden age, but as you say it was also a relatively small sport even then.

I had to laugh at the Morris Minor story, same now goes for the Austin Allegro, they seem to have become 'collectable'. I never heard a good word about them in the 70s.

 

[Robbied196]

I think you have a good result

It would be good if you can get it more original. The main thing is the paint still looks good and some of its original components, so its kind of halfway there.

The Williams chainset might help you get a closer year, theres a good reference site here:

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/wi ... ating.html

 

[DrewSavage]

Blimey! Ive looked up those Benelux rod front dérailleurs on eBay and they go for between £50 and £120! I had no idea.

I could strip it and sell the front and rear dérailleurs and the brakes for twice what I paid for the bike. I'd rather not do that though - it ought to be kept together as an actual bike, I feel. I've ordered a pair of GB Arret levers and a period Dawes handlebar off ebay.

How much do you think it'd be worth, if all original?

Oh... and of course it'll need a frame mounted gear lever. Damn. Forgot about that. Does anyone know what would be the right kind? It looks like a braze-on job.

 

[keithglos]

Drew
To operate your benelux gear a clip on lever with a large diameter, about an inch will do it, Simplex, Huret or Cyclo Benenlux. Just remember the inner cable has to move the same distance as the width of the freewheel.

The price of some parts shows up the benefit of buying a complete bike rather than a frame from which the parts have been sold to someone who bought a frame then decides to rebuild it as original......

Keith

 

[DrewSavage]

Brilliant. And for someone who really doesn't understand these things and has only ridden the bike once around the block so far, why did they have 49/46T front derailleurs back in the day? A friend of mine has just bought a Raleigh Gran Sport that has the same setup.

Was to do with only having 4 gears on the back? Did that really make a difference?

 

[keithglos]

Drew, A typical 10 speed was 46/49 or 47/50 with perhaps 14 to 23 freewheel. This would give 10 evenly spaced gear ratios, about 5 or 6 inches difference.
In 1950 and 51 I had 47/50 with 13-15-17-19-21. Might have been better with a 22. No trouble going up a 1 in 4 hill.
We calculated gear ratios in inches, the equivalent of the diameter of an old Ordinay front wheel. If the wheel diameter was 27 inches, a 16 x 48 would turn the wheel 3 times so gear of 81 inches.

Keith

 

[Spokesmann]

Re:

Just seen this thread, love the bike...