canties - straddle or no straddle?

[Neil]

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate aesthetics on bikes - it's just that my idea of beauty for a bike is simplicity, clean lines, and the odd smattering of Campag.

Beyond that, Jackson Pollock, or this seasons colours, have no place on bikes for me.

I don't want a bit of lurid colour on a bike, to spice it up, I want it to look good, clean, simple, and beautifully engineered.

 

[Neil]

Like all bling, it depends on wether it is done with taste and a degree of style, just as a spoiler on a evo looks just right, he same spoiler on a saxo is just not cricket old chap.

To be honest, most spoilers on cars look tedious and pointless.

And most of them do nothing but add drag and weight. I removed mine from my mid-to-large saloon, as it served no purpose other than being handy to close the boot.

Now whilst some high-priced exotica may need the downforce, I'm reminded of that story (maybe it's urban legend) about the original Lamborghini Countach. Didn't have a spoiler. Potential customers complained. Countach grew a rear spoiler. Sales went up. There's one born every minute.

 

[clockworkgazz]

fair point neil however a spoiler on a evo does serve a very useful purpose, as the car is rapid enough to need the additional downforce.

The same I suppose with bling parts, alot were quite expensive and well engineered BITD so for someone pushing the bike to the max (never me ) they not only added to the overal form IMHO they also were an improvement in the function of the bike- not always but the good stuff did anyway.

 

[Neil]

fair point neil however a spoiler on a evo does serve a very useful purpose, as the car is rapid enough to need the additional downforce.

I'm not disputing that there are potentially cars that are capable of exploiting addition downforce for cornering. They are few and far between on road cars, though. Evos and scoobies are somewhere inbetween, because of their rallying pedigree. Even so, the speed it would become useful, is not (IMO) what many / most drivers perceive. You've no doubt seen the wings on F1 cars. They don't really benefit that much from downforce 'til their speed is approaching 100mph.

All that said, do you believe that a spoiler is on an Evo for performance requirements, or marketing?

I've seen stock Skylines, that don't have them...

The same I suppose with bling parts, alot were quite expensive and well engineered BITD so for someone pushing the bike to the max (never me ) they not only added to the overal form IMHO they also were an improvement in the function of the bike- not always but the good stuff did anyway.

I get that many lurid components were also well engineered. But equally well egineered parts were more normal in appearance. People (IMO) don't use purple skewers, chainring bolts, or straddle wires because of their performance. They buy and use them because they are a lurid colour. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that - I'm merely suggesting that people use them for subjectivity, not objectivity (ie how they perform).

And different strokes and all that, some people clearly think it's the epitome of cool, personally I think it looks crasse - we're all entitled to have a view.

 

[clockworkgazz]

"And different strokes and all that, some people clearly think it's the epitome of cool, personally I think it looks crasse - we're all entitled to have a view."

And that is what make life interesting

Go on then show us your bike/s and let the hounds see the rabbits.

I to like a clean and simple bike (albeit I'm sure I have never owned one :roll: )

 

[russ77]

Rear spoilers are generally added to road cars to reduce the aerodynamic lift caused by the "notchback" shape of saloon cars, rather than downforce. Actual downforce on a road car would be a pain the neck to control and for practical speeds, would involve enormous wings that would look very silly indeed, also causing unacceptable drag.

True, most hi-tech anodized alloy parts were available in more subdued colours. Colourful parts are added to bicycles because their owners like them. Simple as that. I think.

 

[Neil]

"And different strokes and all that, some people clearly think it's the epitome of cool, personally I think it looks crasse - we're all entitled to have a view."

And that is what make life interesting

Go on then show us your bike/s and let the hounds see the rabbits.

Is that genuine curiosity, or fishing for something to criticise? ;-) I don't mean for that to sound so argumentative, it's just that sometimes when you have such a debate, then somebody says "So what do you have, then?" they aren't always looking just for interest, but to try and find something to retaliate to, after some inferred criticism.

I have good intentions of posting pics, I just haven't really had time. My main squeeze, bike-wise, is a (largely) stock '95 Diamonback Apex.

The kit changed since it was unpacked from it's box, are pedals (it's currently got Tioga Surefoot VIs on (with toe-clips ;-)), tyres (Psycho-Ks ditched for Tioga City Slickers) - well it's never been off-road (the bike it replace did plenty of off-road, but around the time I got this bike, I was struggling with a not-cycling-related knee issue / minor injury (soft-tissue problems), these days, I only have time for the odd bit of on-road pootling). I think I put a slightly lighter handlebar on (although the stock Bontrager one was only aronud 170g, not sure what I was thinking, there). It's got some clip on black plastic mudguards on, I like keeping dry, when I'm cycling ;-)

Other than that, the only tangible change (that I'm going to reverse soon, as I bought some almost identical (to stock) STIs from guybe) is that the rear shifter / brake lever combo (originally LX) had to be changed, because the rear shifter stopped working (once rescued, twice wasn't going to cut it). So now as a temporary measure, the front brake is a V brake, and the shifter is a fairly modern Alivio unit. A while back I did buy some separate V-brake leverls (Deore) and some separate XT (8-speed) rapidfire-plus shifters (ie clamp-on, rather than all-in-one with the brake levers) that I intended to upgrade to, but I personally prefer cantis over Vs, so having recently purchased a pair of Deore LX (95 / 96) STIs, I plan on putting them on (front shifter is now showing some of the same tendencies that the iffy, original rear shifterhas), and putting the front canti back on, and the bike will be returned to stock.

Actually, ideally, I'd have 7/8 speed thumshifters, cantis and some decent quality brake levers (canti-compatibile), but stock for me would be better, than moving forward to Vs for it.

The rest of it, I'm largely happy with. It needs some thorough cleaning of the drivetrain and mechs. I'm happy with much of the kit on it. Maybe a nicer stem and bars at some point - perhaps the same for saddle and seatpin. Other than that, the wheels are nice and true (Mavic 230s on LX hub (rear) and STX or STX/RC front (that's not stock, I bought an almost identical set of wheels (same rim, slightly down-spec hubs, though) for what was then a hack bike (stolen by some ne-er-do-well, who actually nicked the bike that looked more bling, yet passed over my more boring (but markedly better) Apex (the bad 'uns broke into a garage, stole my hack bike, left my Apex - a truly bitter-sweet moment).

Pics when I can, and it's clean (and perhaps when I've sorted out the rear shifter / front brake). It's currently on the dark-side of the moon ;-) in my garage - locked to two anchor points, with more locks than you'd believe, whilst my hack bike is in front of it, not locked (although the garage is well secured).

 

[clockworkgazz]

me........argumentative, I've been married to long to know that "down that dark road only sorrow lurks"

Just being a nosey bastard that is all

 

[Neil]

Rear spoilers are generally added to road cars to reduce the aerodynamic lift caused by the "notchback" shape of saloon cars, rather than downforce.

Um lift is countered by downforce. Look at how a spoiler is added, and what it would do to the air-flow. A lip, for example, I could see as being something to break up air-flow, but most spoilers ape (albeit in a easy-listening, colour-code way) the sort of spoilers you'd get on true sports cars.

And in very much the main, spoilers are only added because people want cars with spoilers on - marketing.

My car, for example, only had a spoiler on it, because of an option pack, not because of any objective or performance related aspect of it. Because the same car, with the same engine, and the same suspension, and same performance, was perfectly available without the spoiler option.

Actual downforce on a road car would be a pain the neck to control and for practical speeds, would involve enormous wings that would look very silly indeed, also causing unacceptable drag.

Precisely - downforce for most road cars, and most road car use, is truly asinine. True exotics and supercars may benefit when people are trying to get their best out of them on track, or on the autobahn.

Thing is, though, when you point this out to many enthusiasts - that their sporty, warm car has a bit of plastic bolted to the back of it, merely as some cynical marketing exercise, they often trot out the "It's needed for downforce..." argument.

However, as to your initial point above, lift is (very much in the main, although some cars have rear diffusers - some exotica, and the odd sporty hatchback ;-)) countered by downforce, because lift is as much (if not more - I'm getting the negative pressure, thingmy, but you see my point) to do with the air flow below the car, as flowing above it.

True, most hi-tech anodized alloy parts were available in more subdued colours. Colourful parts are added to bicycles because their owners like them. Simple as that. I think.

Indeed.

Some people like them - and every strength to them.

Personally, it reminds me of chavved-up cars, but each to their own. Some people prefer chavved-up cars.

 

[Neil]

Just being a nosey bastard that is all

I would like to get some pics of it - if merely for nothing else, it would force me to get the thing out of the garage (and all the locks removed ;-)), and get it clean, and sorted out.

At the moment, though, the hack bike is in the way, and if I have to do any cycling, it's only going to be local, so it gets used. Encroaching winter-ness isn't helping, either :-(