Anti-Hope- Rant.

[Timoth27]

Re:

Just looking in the archive and a hope sus hub was £50 in 94 and a pro4 is £75 I don’t think that’s that bad

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/M ... C.jpg.html

 

[ishaw]

Re:

Hope stuff is good and serviceable too, even without many of the special tools. Bore caps I agree with, so many tools for something that should be standard. The minor hint changes are also annoying, especially the tiny changes to bearing sizes and free hubs so you cant swap them. Then there's the cheese metal of the freehub itself. What's the point in light if it's so fragile. The steel freehub is loads better but heavier naturally.

 

[dyna-ti]

Re: Re:

Just looking in the archive and a hope sus hub was £50 in 94 and a pro4 is £75 I don’t think that’s that bad

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/M ... C.jpg.html

front hubs tend to be a bit samey, and theres not much scope for design change that would equal price increase other than inflation.
We're 30 years down the line and you can place a pro4 next to a large flange of their earliest tandem fronts, and the only difference is the axle system, which is based on their original design from the fatso, and the disc carrier from spider to 6 bolt Incorporated.

It isn't the best review.

"Unlike their fantastic rear hub this suspension model doesn't offer as much as it could. Smaller faces than the other hubs and a constant diameter axle means it isnt trying as hard as other models in the test. The new model should be much improved, though.."

Looking at those 4 I think (going clockwise) the Machine tech has stood the test of time, certainly beefy, Same style GT adopted and I wonder if the better of their two was taken directly from the Machinetech design :? the t gear i know nothing about. The shocktech had a debonding issue and the Hope the small flanges couldnt take the strain and had a habit of cracking.

The moral of the story there appears that the cheaper options - Hope/Shocktech with their innovative design, have not stood the test of time, and that makes them the poor investment.

 

[Timoth27]

Re: Re:

Just looking in the archive and a hope sus hub was £50 in 94 and a pro4 is £75 I don’t think that’s that bad

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/M ... C.jpg.html

front hubs tend to be a bit samey, and theres not much scope for design change that would equal price increase other than inflation.
We're 30 years down the line and you can place a pro4 next to a large flange of their earliest tandem fronts, and the only difference is the axle system, which is based on their original design from the fatso, and the disc carrier from spider to 6 bolt Incorporated.

It isn't the best review.

"Unlike their fantastic rear hub this suspension model doesn't offer as much as it could. Smaller faces than the other hubs and a constant diameter axle means it isnt trying as hard as other models in the test. The new model should be much improved, though.."

Looking at those 4 I think (going clockwise) the Machine tech has stood the test of time, certainly beefy, Same style GT adopted and I wonder if the better of their two was taken directly from the Machinetech design :? the t gear i know nothing about. The shocktech had a debonding issue and the Hope the small flanges couldnt take the strain and had a habit of cracking.

The moral of the story there appears that the cheaper options - Hope/Shocktech with their innovative design, have not stood the test of time, and that makes them the poor investment.

Honestly I didn’t read the article I just looked for the prices, I was actually hoping to compare the prices of the brakes but found the hub first.

I think saying buying hope is a poor investment is pretty harsh (sorry if I have mis understood what you are saying) I’d have to argue they learnt from a poor design and came up with the xc/bulb/bigun all of which are 20 years old now but still going for good money second hand. As you said about shock tech I think most companies have a “bad” product in the back catalogue.

I wonder if you can phone up Machinetech and get a replacement axle for that hub. Hope sent me a brand new bulb rear axle a couple of months ago free of change, no questions about if I bought the hub new just what’s your address. That’s for a 20 year old hub.

 

[dyna-ti]

Calm down Tim, im not saying that at all Just in the context of the suspension hub in the link.

And nobody is questioning their service and support which is legendary. I've often used it myself. But lets have a critical opinion without ending up in a bun fight. I think ive made my initial point clear, and can see several are in agreement.
Nobody's knocking Hope's technical skill, just the constant need for it.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

The 'new model' it mentions is the FatSo. It just wasn't quite available yet.
My suspensions are still going fine and still fetch a good price on the second hand market.

That's means it has stood the test of time in my opinion.

It's a Suspension front hub though, built at time things still needed to have an eye on lightweight, reasonable price and look cool.
It is exactly what the market wanted.

Shimanos hubs hower have changed very little in reality. Built around an age old design, became the largest cycle part manufacturer?
Tend not to really change things too much and takes their time.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

Meh, I think Hope are are. They may well have changed various parts and tools but can't say I've noticed as my Hope kit tends to be fit and forget. They also fixed my old Pro2 hub for free even though it was second hand and well out of warranty. Thumbs up from me.

As for the price of stuff, top end exotica in being very expensive shock! It's always been the case but it's as easy as ever to get high performing kit at a decent price. £75 stem? I'm sure I paid similar for a Thomson one 15 years ago. Expensive forks? I paid £400 for some £1100rrp Fox 36 in the CRC sale. How much were the original RC35's or Mag 20's? Expensive Suntour? It's because they're decent and comparable to others at that rrp. You can still get plenty of cheap Suntour forks if you want.

I just can't get over excited about pricing as it's no different to any other time or virtually any other hobby/sport you can think of. As for Hope, they're engineers by nature so continually tinker looking for marginal gains. Fine with me, I'll keep buying their stuff.

 

[My_Teenage_Self]

A logical example of engineering advances might well be the afore-mentioned bleed nipple, as part of the bigger picture of hope brake evolution.

Hope use industry standard bleed nipples. They work, they're proven, and they're cheap. It means a 'bleed kit' is literally a short length of very cheap & readily available hose. I can buy it for 50p a metre from my local hardware shop.

Now, the early hopes were heavy, somewhat agricultural and relatively ineffective. Hope focussed on the stopping power, and it improved. they focussed on reducing the weight, more CNC, better materials etc. By a certain point in the evolution it gets harder and harder to improve these metrics and I'm sure one of the designers/engineers looked at it and thought "why not use a smaller and lighter bleed nipple?"

I kinda agree about the bore cap tools; I have a bike with an M4 front and mini rear caliper, that means I needed 3 tools to service them. Frustrating. But, these are 10 year old brakes, and I just went to my LBS and had the tools within 3 days for £20. They had the tools themselves anyway. Most other companies don't offer that backup, so at least Hope backwardly support their evolution.

I guess us retrobikers are (obviously) not as desperate for the 'next big thing' as most. I've been contemplating a new bike, and have been totally put off by the myriad of axle sizing and systems out there.

 

[Timoth27]

Calm down Tim, im not saying that at all Just in the context of the suspension hub in the link.

And nobody is questioning their service and support which is legendary. I've often used it myself. But lets have a critical opinion without ending up in a bun fight. I think ive made my initial point clear, and can see several are in agreement.
Nobody's knocking Hope's technical skill, just the constant need for it.

No worries, as for a bun fight I was just trying to offer a constructive alternative opinion. Speaking of which if it wasn’t for a constant need to show technical skill we probably wouldn’t have suspension, dropper posts, 1x drive trains, the internet, electric cars, airplanes...........

 

[Supratada]

Re: Re:

Meh, I think Hope are are. They may well have changed various parts and tools but can't say I've noticed as my Hope kit tends to be fit and forget. They also fixed my old Pro2 hub for free even though it was second hand and well out of warranty. Thumbs up from me.

As for the price of stuff, top end exotica in being very expensive shock! It's always been the case but it's as easy as ever to get high performing kit at a decent price. £75 stem? I'm sure I paid similar for a Thomson one 15 years ago. Expensive forks? I paid £400 for some £1100rrp Fox 36 in the CRC sale. How much were the original RC35's or Mag 20's? Expensive Suntour? It's because they're decent and comparable to others at that rrp. You can still get plenty of cheap Suntour forks if you want.

I just can't get over excited about pricing as it's no different to any other time or virtually any other hobby/sport you can think of. As for Hope, they're engineers by nature so continually tinker looking for marginal gains. Fine with me, I'll keep buying their stuff.

Now you've said that, I remembered just recently looking at modern triple crown forks being £800 to £1100 ish and thinking "that's just gone mental, what's happened to cycling?" but I paid £395 in 1996 for my Pace MXCDs and using the BofE inflation calculator, that's now equivalent to paying £730.
£730 for 2" of elastomer travel?