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 Post subject: Re: So is it 26 or 27.5"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:06 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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tintin40 wrote:
A bicycle will only go as fast as the riders fitness will allow. I raced a mate. Him on a 27.5 Cube and me on my 26er. He is a soldier so has excellent fitness. But despite him on a modern 'better' mtb with all the toys and me on a rigid. I was faster by a long way. Its not what you ride its who is the rider. But the ad men say you have to have bigger wheels now. And people didn't even know they wanted them. They could sell ice cubes to eskimo's.


As above, there’s no right answer, just shades of grey.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:33 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 766
brocklanders023 wrote:
d8mok wrote:
brocklanders023 wrote:

Utter nonsense.


It’s my opinion. Like you have your opinion I’m entitled to mine. You asked me a question and I answered.

It’s only push bikes not serious stuff and everyone prefers different things. But at least tell me why it’s nonsense ?

Out of interest which other bikes have you owned in this category? As like I said I’ve owned a Five for a year so feel I’m in a position to comment.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:38 am 
GOLD | PoTM | Rider | rBOTM
GOLD | PoTM | Rider | rBOTM
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Location: Northest North Yorkshire. whippet real good...
Will reply but would be riding over old chestnuts. 6 29ers from rigid to fs. Umpteen 26ers likewise.

For me in summary. 26 are fast skittish short fun bikes. 29 are faster stable forgiving less concentration fun bikes. I pick depending on mood.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:22 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 2:29 pm
Posts: 642
d8mok wrote:
It’s my opinion. Like you have your opinion I’m entitled to mine. You asked me a question and I answered.

It’s only push bikes not serious stuff and everyone prefers different things. But at least tell me why it’s nonsense ?

Out of interest which other bikes have you owned in this category? As like I said I’ve owned a Five for a year so feel I’m in a position to comment.



Quotes like “utter nonsense” are just inflammatory and un helpful, like d8mok said his response was informative and based on his actual experience.

I actually think that shock design has improved so much over that last few years that it has allowed single pivot designs to stay alive I have 2 late 90’s Santa Cruz hecklers and they are great (I’ve owned 1 from new) and because of their simplicity just keep going. Just my opinion of course.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:58 am 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 2:29 pm
Posts: 642
The History Man wrote:
Will reply but would be riding over old chestnuts. 6 29ers from rigid to fs. Umpteen 26ers likewise.

For me in summary. 26 are fast skittish short fun bikes. 29 are faster stable forgiving less concentration fun bikes. I pick depending on mood.


Great summary I thinks it’s about choice, if you are lucky enough to be in a position to have multiple bikes and like multiple disciplines then why not.

I have recently built up a hard tail 29er and use it for training and pulling the kids in a buggy on fire trails and actually it’s great. But still love my 98 heckler. And if I was to buy a new bike it would probably be a hope so 27.5.

If there was a bike that suited ever person and every discipline it would be really boring.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:51 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 3449
brocklanders023 wrote:
d8mok wrote:
And like you said many bike designs are old systems but over the years are being more and more refined. Orange haven’t refined anything. Jump on a 20 year old Five and a newer one and it’s the same single pivot that has a terrible pedal platform and soggy small bump compliance. I like orange as a company I really do and I bought a £5k build one but it left me numb. Sold it and went Santa Cruz Bronson and the difference was night and day.


Utter nonsense.
not really.
All orange have done with the 5 platform is gently polish and update it.
Better shock, more travel, tweak to the pivot position and so on.

Same as a lot of other manufacturers have. Still making the same suspension setups they did 15 years ago. Just with better shocks and tweaked geometry.

It's not a bad thing to do, it suits what Orange (insert other brand of choice) customers like in a suspension bike of that type.
For my sort of riding, it's shit, I've ridden several 5s. And competitors to it.

At a guess i say that without the platform shock technology coming on so far and fast, the appeal of the 5 would be far more limited. And orange might have pulled the plug on it. As it is, it suits enough peoples ideas of what a good suspension bike is, and fits into enough niches to be profitable.


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 Post subject: Re: So is it 26 or 27.5"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:05 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 3449
Though if you want a bit of a laugh the Wikipedia page says.
"The Patriot is one of Orange's best selling models and was the best selling performance mountain bike in Britain for several years."
I'd love to know how that was calculated........


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:34 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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The utter nonsense was to suggest that there's little difference in ride between the original Orange single pivot bikes and the current ones. Having owned a 2006 and 2010 5 along with riding various other versions I feel qualified to say the ride has evolved significantly over the years. Shock, geometry and wheel size all play a part but I challenge any of you to ride the original Sub 5 back to back with a current 5 and come away thinking they offer the same thing.

As for other bikes for me personally, I have not owned other brands since a 1999 GT XCR but have demo'd plenty as I'm not such a fan boy to think nothing compares to an Orange. Also got plenty of mates who have had other brands so know what they offer. The most disappointing of all was the Santa Cruz 29er thing where as I like my pals Specialized Camber. My next fancy pants bike is likely to be a Hope rather than Orange.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:56 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 2:29 pm
Posts: 642
brocklanders023 wrote:
The utter nonsense was to suggest that there's little difference in ride between the original Orange single pivot bikes and the current ones. Having owned a 2006 and 2010 5 along with riding various other versions I feel qualified to say the ride has evolved significantly over the years. Shock, geometry and wheel size all play a part but I challenge any of you to ride the original Sub 5 back to back with a current 5 and come away thinking they offer the same thing.

As for other bikes for me personally, I have not owned other brands since a 1999 GT XCR but have demo'd plenty as I'm not such a fan boy to think nothing compares to an Orange. Also got plenty of mates who have had other brands so know what they offer. The most disappointing of all was the Santa Cruz 29er thing where as I like my pals Specialized Camber. My next fancy pants bike is likely to be a Hope rather than Orange.


Thanks brock that’s maybe what you could of said earlier instead of just “utter nonsense”. I think we agree though that the single pivot design is only being sustained by clever shock trickery.

As for the hb160 I think getting hold of one is going to be the hardest bit.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 766
That’s the good thing about bikes as they make so many they’re is a bike for everyone’s taste and riding preference. Don’t take offence when someone’s opinion doesn’t match yours.

What other bikes did you demo?

If you’ve owned a 2006, 2010 and the two pictured you too then I assume you tried the competition each time and didn’t just go with the brand loyalty?

I’m not a fanboy of any brand so I simply buy the bike I like most. And it’s usually the one I least expect.


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