Spoke question(s) and wheel building

I'm looking to build up a rear wheel (xt m737 on a mavic xc717 rim). I'd like to match the front build in terms of spokes (the xc717 rim is as close as I could find to the x517 I built up front). I'm not sure what spokes were used on the front though (I already had them from a job lot of bits I bought ages ago). They have a stamp on the spoke head which i think identifies them as DT Swiss? There is definitely some butting going on at the nipple end (what a dodgy sentence), so how can I confirm what the spokes are to order some more? I know there are plain gauge, various butted option etc, just trying to match them as best I can or should I not bother?

Next up, spoke lengths. I'm not being lazy and have used a couple of online calculators with differing results. There are a couple of mms in it. Looking at spokes for sale, they come in set lengths (naturally) and the sizes I need seem to fall in between what's available. Would you buy shorter or longer spokes or should I be able to get the exact spoke length somewhere once I've identified the spoke I need.

Neatly moving on to a source of said spokes. Any places recommended or is it just a case of crc, wiggle etc for the 32 I'd need?

Last but not least, nipples. My research has lead me to believe there are a couple of different diameters to worry about. I've tons of them in a drawer (new) so would prefer not to have to buy more. Are the spoke threads a standard diameter? Does the size of the nipple/spoke need to match the diameter of the rim eyelet?

I've built a few wheels in the past (fairly successfully imho) but I've had all the bits I've needed to do so already, or simply transplanted the rim. This is my first foray into buying the bits, and don't want to make any school boy errors.

Any other considerations? I've a low end wheel truing stand and use the bike frame intended to dish the wheel. Tension is another matter and I tend to try and get it similar to a trusted wheel on a bike, or failing that, take it to the lbs for a true just in case.

Cheers.

My calculations show that your ideal spoke lengths are Left 264.2 Right 262.7. There's no trouble going a couple mm's shorter than this, try to avoid going longer. I use this calculator :
http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator and have yet to have trouble.

DT spokes feature a T overstriking a D, pretty recognisable, on the spoke heads. Spokes will be either straight gauge or will feature various styles of butting. Running your fingers down a spoke will reveal if it's butted. Measure the diameter of each segment. Most often, you'll find the inner and outer ends will have the same thickness, but not always. Measuring the diameters should allow you to match the new spokes to them.

As far as nipples go, my LBS has always provided standard brass nipples free of charge with the spokes I buy. I always build with brass nipples, longevity is my goal. I'm not completely certain, but I believe they're all threaded the same, #2-56. Certainly is on 2mm ended spokes (like the common 2-1.8-2 butted spokes I like).

IMHO, Roger Musson's Practical Guide to Wheel Building is a wonderful resource. Hard to go wrong. Worth paying for.

I lube my spoke nipples with raw linseed oil - nicer than thread lockers, yet still provides good security. I've also had good success with light oil or grease.

Spoke tension can be judged by the musical note made while plucking the spoke. Reference : http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm

While I have access to a truing stand at my LBS, I usually use the frame/fork and zip ties for reference. Here's a photo of a "truing stand" I used for my last few wheels. Simple, and good accuracy with a bit of care. Double check dish by reversing the wheel and seeing that its relationship to the markers doesn't change.


I guess it's also worth saying that before you begin, check and service the hub. The better the bearing is set up, teh easier will be the work.

Good luck!

J

Re:

262/264 for a rear 32 setup 3x with that setup.
I have a few of them, it is the same for most rim brake Shimano hubs for the 717 rim

You can check the butting as revolution will feel very thin, but measure them if you can, they will probably be competition I.e. a 2.0 at either end and 1.7 to 1.8mm in the middle.

Get 2.0mm threaded 12 or 14mm length nipples in whatever material you want. These are 'standard nipple diameter and lemgths'.
They may even co e on your spokes, but not always.
Buy from where will do the split of 16x262 and 16x264 and is cheapest.

Cheers for the advice guys, it will hold me in good stead for the build. Must get some new verniers for more accurate measurements, mine have died though I can still use the manual part I guess as the digital bit has broken (battery connection).

None of my local shops sell spokes so it will need to be online.

Thanks also for clarifying the measurements, they do at least corroborate one of the sets I hot online.

Re:

1+ for the raw linseed oil, dries up and gets sticky. Don't use synthetic oils on the spokes as it doesn't dry up so you risk loosening of the spokes.

I use EDD spoke calc a lot and it is spot on if you enter your own measurements.

I would not recommend going shorter on length, ever. It is better to have a little extra length than tread sticking out of the nipples (which is what you risk when going shorter). The first 2mm of the nipples are usually without thread so I like to have the spokes (almost) poking out the other end..

As for the nipples themselves. You have various diameters for the different spoke sizes, but you'll notice when somethings wrong. The standard DT brass nipples suck, too weak. They will damage when you tighten them. Sapim Brass are an OK substitute as are the DT prolock. The prolock also have a threadlocking substance inside so no need to use the linseed there.

Wheel building is very complicated, or not. My son made a rim heart shaped so I did the unthinkable and moved the spokes over to a new rim one by one. The LBS said it was a very bad idea, but those kids didn't ride bikes with rim brakes, when we had to do this regularly. He's treated the wheel with no respect subsequently, but it's all OK so far.

Nah, it's not complicated, just careful...

Usually, a bent rim's hub and spokes are fine. I folded my road bike wheel last week *sigh*, but was able to transfer to a new rim with no particular difficulty....



Took an hour.

J

Try one of the german online retailers for spokes, usually about 2/3rds to 3/4trs the price of the UK places, some also do batches, 10s, 16s, 18s 24s and so on. (and singles obviously.)
Most come with the correct nipples as well. Or you can buy bags of "more than enough for a pair of wheels" for a couple of euros. I did a pair of 32s and had about 20 nipples left over, so it's not a precise measure, same with the spokes, ordered 72 and was confused as hell when i had half a dozen left over......

And with something like that combination of rim/hub, it's really not worth the expense of anything more than boggo Double butted SS spokes. The extra cost (and fiddliness) of anything lighter/posher/bladed really won't be noticeable.

the cycle clinic is about the best priced for spokes in the UK

Cheers. Cycle clinic prices look good. I can forego matching the brand tbh. Looks like 16x 262 and 16x264 are what I need.