XC 650b 1982

[GrahamJohnWallace]

Re: Re:

How are you getting on? Tell us more….Talk me through that BB; is that two sets of bearings I see? Is the axle a “special” as it’s running in a 90mm shell? How are the hubs?

Yep! two sets of bearings: needle roller bearings to take care of the main drive forces and caged thrust ball bearings for lateral forces.

It is designed to be filled with oil that leaks out lubricating and cleaning the bearings as it does. Not a good idea to leave the bike on its side for long periods as the oil will end up as a puddle on the floor. I guess it's the opposite of a sealed bearing, more of a leaky bearing but it only works if you keep the oil topped up. If you use grease instead of oil the needle bearings will push it away from the axle leaving gaps where grit and water can lodge. This will cause irreparable axle wear.

Replacement bearings are easy to obtain and fit though the hardened steel washers that the thrust bearings run against are more difficult to replace.

The complete unit was sold by Bulseye. I believe it was intended for some sort of BMX bike?

Here's a video of Geoff Apps riding this bike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1bYUSRhPRg

And a photo of the bike with it's original, pith helmet and red braces wearing owner.

 

[highlandsflyer]

Re:

Stirring stuff! Love it.

 

[DrJo]

Quick update as there seems to be a bit of interest. I'm waiting on a newish shimano 600 headset and then the plan is to put it back together as is and see how it fits. I've got some bits and pieces in the shed that might get swapped on if the geometry isn't quite there!! vintage motocross bars married to a Raleigh slingshot stem and suntour layback seatpost.... I'll not be getting rid of the originals, they'll find a nice dark spot in the cave to gather dust..........
I think the BB is in fine shape and plan on reinstalling it carefully and topping it up with oil regularly, thanx for that little gem graham, Not too sure about the condition of the hubs yet but will feedback once she's up and riding....
here's some more photos for the fans... I especially like the one of Jeremy torr on a white rangerider circa 83. And as I'm unsure as to which way to go maybe a poll!!
Do I want a black one, a red one or a white one??

 

[Muddy paw]

I'd go for the red as it's not to dark or to light and looks solid so that's my choice and reason ..

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

... I've got some bits and pieces in the shed that might get swapped on if the geometry isn't quite there!!...

You need to keep in mind that this is not a standard mountain bike and that Geoff Apps as an "expert class" motorbike trials rider really knew what he was doing". I would recommend that you set it up as he intended with the trademark upright riding position and 80% of the weight over the back wheel and then tweak things until it fits perfectly.
You should be surprised by how well it handles and climbs. Only when you've got the feel of the bike should you try to make big changes. The danger is that it is easy to change a Cleland to make it handle like a mountain bike but what's the point? You might as well buy a mountain bike.

...here's some more photos for the fans... I especially like the one of Jeremy torr on a white rangerider circa 83. And as I'm unsure as to which way to go maybe a poll!!
Do I want a black one, a red one or a white one??

I'am going to be boring and take the purist line here. To my Knowledge this is the 5th oldest Geoff Apps designed bicycle to survive and one of the most complete. It was the first Cleland to be sold to the public in late 1982. All other production Clelands date to 83-84. It is almost certainly the first off-road bike to be manufactured and sold in Britain/Europe. There is also the historical significance of its 650b Hakkapeliitta tyres that lye at the foundation of the 29er movement. And in tern the modern 650b trend that started as a reaction to the success of the 29ers.

Its original powder coat was replaced with paint when the seat tube was repaired by David Wrath-Sharman circa 1988 but it has always been black so I personally would keep it that way.However, despite this bikes potential as a museum piece it was designed to be used and enjoyed so its good to think that this bike will be used again even if changes need to be made
And I think it wise for you as the current custodian of this bike to keep the parts, no matter how insignificant, safely in a box. Over the years most Clelands have lost their there original parts in the name of improving the design. Nowadays, some of these lost parts are almost impossible to find. I only know of two other Aventuras that survive in their original condition.


Happy tinkering,
Graham.

 

[DrJo]

Quick update, nothing's ever as simple as you hope it's going to be.
Decided to get my skates on as there's not too many days of summer and I wanna show off a bit.
Off to the spray shop, out with the frame, hang on a minute whats that!!
Horror... that's a kink, in the headtube collar, and on further inspection that's most definitely a fecking crack too.
What sort of numpty decided to take the headset out with sharp tools and poor eyesight..... arararggghhhh.
The nice fella's at colorcote blasted the offending article to show the damage..
A sharp implement has pierced the very front and centre of the headtube just above the lower collar and has cracked the collar very neatly almost in two..... phillistines
Home, telephone, Burrows engineering, very nice gentleman, 25mins drive from my place, should be fixed by Friday then off to the spray shop again. OMG Burrows workshop overload too.
Lets hope there aren't too many more teething problems, if there are then I think I know where I'll be headed..
updates to follow

 

[andyz]

Re:

Wow! :shock:
It would take quite a lot of force and a decent chisel to go right through the head tube - I wonder how that happened?!
Check for cracks where the seat tube meets the head tube.......

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

Re: Re:

Sorry to hear of these problems Dr Jo :facepalm:

Wow! :shock:
It would take quite a lot of force and a decent chisel to go right through the head tube - I wonder how that happened?!
Check for cracks where the seat tube meets the head tube.......

That seat tube on that frame cracked many years ago just above the top tube at the bottom of the seat clamp slot. This was repaired at Highpath Engineering where they reinforced the entire top end of the seat tube. I think it unlikely that it would crack there again.

This was a common weak point on Clelands and was confounded by the fact that seat posts longer than about 160mm were unheard of back then. I strongly recommend that any tall riders that own Clelands without the Highpath modification, should use a long seat pin in order to internally reinforce the seat tube. They should also keep a look out for small cracks starting from the bottom of the seat clamp slot in order to catch them early. On my Cleland it cracked all the way around so that you could lift the seat pin out with the top of the seat tube still attached.

Clelands were made from lightweight road bike tubes at a time when the structural loads on an off road frame were not well understood. Despite this most have copped pretty well with 30 years of regular abuse.

 

[firedfromthecircus]

How did I miss this thread? :facepalm:

Is there any progress on your Cleland DrJo? I see from your sig hope that there might be.
Would love to see some pics and hear a progress report.