What have we become ?

[silverclaws]

Some were given the things, others bought them and of those that bought them, they could have had it cheaper if they paid up front, but I wonder what they actually cost to make and were they worth the £400 some had to pay for them and were they made in Britain or the far east to maximise profit and what of that profit, how much was made ? Cynical aren't I, I wasn't always so, in the past I was just gullible.

But how many of these things were dished out sold or otherwise and why so many, would it have not been better to hand one torch over as it is mean't to be, or is it the quantity reflects the fact that the olympics in Britain we were sold by our dear leaders as being good for the economy ?

And if it is the olympics is just a money spinner to the government, then what these people are doing by selling the torches, is doing what they are doing in the same vein as the government and all those who have chipped in to make this thing happen.

I wonder the true spirit of the games, has it long since been extinguished, but I would personally rather this thing happens in the country it came from and there perhaps an industry for them to claw their way out of their financial problems and I just hope Britain four years into the future is not in the same mess they are after they last held the olympic games.

 

[gregs656]

The modern olympic games isn't really that old, only a 100 years or so. Giving/selling torches to the people that run with them isn't something new, nor is trading in them. Likewise with medals.

Trading like this has always happened, it's nothing new. That doesn't make it right - but I think it's inaccurate to say that people have got more mercenary - perhaps the face of it has changed.

 

[Neil]

The modern olympic games isn't really that old, only a 100 years or so. Giving/selling torches to the people that run with them isn't something new, nor is trading in them. Likewise with medals.

Trading like this has always happened, it's nothing new. That doesn't make it right - but I think it's inaccurate to say that people have got more mercenary - perhaps the face of it has changed.

I don't disagree with your first point about the games, but regarding the mercenary thing - sorry - not getting that at all.

In recent decades, society, in general, has most definitely become more mercenary - consumerism and the market economy has depended on it.

 

[MikeD]

In recent decades, society, in general, has most definitely become more mercenary - consumerism and the market economy has depended on it.

I'm not convinced. You don't have to go back very far to find a society with, for example, no welfare state. As a society we choose to collectively contribute a proportion of our income to support people who need it, and that wasn't always the case. Go back a bit further and society is split between the very wealthy landowning nobility and the very poor farming serfdom -- the "middle class" is a comparatively recent invention. While society appears to be getting less equal at the moment, I'm reasonably sure that it's nothing like as unequal as it was in the Middle Ages.

I'd also argue that it's also only comparatively recently that normal people have had sufficient resources to even consider keeping things "for posterity".

 

[Neil]

In recent decades, society, in general, has most definitely become more mercenary - consumerism and the market economy has depended on it.

I'm not convinced. You don't have to go back very far to find a society with, for example, no welfare state. As a society we choose to collectively contribute a proportion of our income to support people who need it, and that wasn't always the case. Go back a bit further and society is split between the very wealthy landowning nobility and the very poor farming serfdom -- the "middle class" is a comparatively recent invention. While society appears to be getting less equal at the moment, I'm reasonably sure that it's nothing like as unequal as it was in the Middle Ages.

I think that's something of a tangent - the degree of equality in society.

In very much previous times that you point out, those with means were a small proportion of society. Most of society had nothing to be mercenary with, nor little means to consume.

The welfare state (at least in the UK) had history showing a huge impact of "The Great War" plus a huge financial downturn.

From the 80s onwards, had there not been one already, could you imagine the welfare state or the NHS being commissioned?

I'd also argue that it's also only comparatively recently that normal people have had sufficient resources to even consider keeping things "for posterity".

Not that I don't get what you are saying - but there was an attitude difference in previous times - many did things much more on principle or for tradition - and people had less easy means to comprehend or do anything about things that may have had much value, beyond very obvious things.

What I'm saying is that society and economies have depended on most people being mercenary, and being rabid consumers - to the point, now, where that is quite a tricky balancing point. Beyond a bit of tokenism, I suspect the government don't really want true austerity in society - 'cos without people spending, the economy is shrinking.

 

[Neil G]

are we more mercenary now than we were in the past ?

Absolutely not. The fact the word has existed for hundreds and hundreds of years should tell you something.

I disagree - I think society and people in general, are much more mercenary than they were in past times.

Whether that's Thatcherism and the 80s, and it's consequences - or really a little of that and natural evolution, I'm unsure.

But there once was a time when many (more) would have kept something like that on principle, regardless of it's monetary value.

Some people would look back on those times as people with a stupid, over-principled attitude to money and objects, with too much pomp and ceremony and not enough pragmatism and practicality.

Others may look back and be somewhat wistful that such principles of old are largely long and gone, regardless of the practicality or sentimentality of it all.

And yes, I know and I get, some people will look at what they've got, think I can sell it for X, and just look what I could do with that - but in reality, most of that is just supporting wanton consumerism, so so what.

Looking back to Dad's Army, and there was one spiv in the group - these days, that proportion would be a lot higher. Now some will say "Good" or "So what?", and some, perhaps, may look back at a more magnolia time when it wasn't the case, and grandads were these principled old duffers, that whilst not always making the most sense, were really quite fine role models.

Truth be told, I'm not critical of people selling these things - I suppose I'm a bit ambivalent - I think I just long for the time when for most it would have been more likely they would have kept such things on principle.

I couldn't agree more, I bet not long ago most people would have kept them to hand down in the family etc. Not that I care but it's the people that are buying them that may be the loosers in the long run.