The spirit of the Santa Cruz Bontragers lives on ...

Perhaps diatribe was a slight overstatement.

It is just lately there has been a slow drift of post 98 coming on to the pre 97 section, in my opinion this belongs squarely in the post 98 section, as you are mainly talking about a modern frame that has all the hallmarks of a modern frame...
 
"The most recent Soul update included a tapered headtube. After a lot of testing of different geometry options, we still felt the original Soul geometry was the best all round option for our riding, but we needed to futureproof things. I remember not buying a Bontrager Race Lite back in the day because Keith staunchly stood by 1" steerers when everything was 1 1/8". I didn't want to make the same mistake, and the beauty of taper steerers is that they are at least backwards compatible so it's an easy switch. I went for a tapered head tube rather than the full width 44mm because the Soul needs to stay elegant and light."

Written by Cy in 2013, so I call BS on him not knowing about Bontrager's details, and not having seen a Bonty frame.

But, that's a nice frame nonetheless. :)
I was puzzled too by the opening post, i thought it was common knowledge Cy had a sit down with Keith before his journey started, and since too looking at the steel Rocket and Keith's early prototypes.

Thought i was going mad for a minute.
 
Well, that’s interesting … not saying you’re wrong, but I was dead accurate in my reporting of two conversations which I had about four years ago …
 
Well, that’s interesting … not saying you’re wrong, but I was dead accurate in my reporting of two conversations which I had about four years ago …
I don't think right or wrong comes into really. I didn't think it was fact that was hidden, or secret.

And to be fair to Keith, he would be the first to admit, if you go back far enough, everything has been done before.
 
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To be fair to both of them, they did well to pull the level of sponsorship together for kate Potter, with the Cotic/Bontrager sponsorship too.

Legends Both.
 
There are so many frames that bear the similarities. The main difference with Bontrager and Cotic, apart from the decade they were born, is Cotic are made in the Far east.

Again a familiar story.(in Brief).

Paul Sadoff honed his craft with both Keith Bontrager and Ross Shafer, after a time leaving to make his own mark on this thing of ours and created Rock Lobster.

Handbuilt Steel, with a similar philosophy.

With such a demand here in the UK for good quality well put together frames, NTI Imports approached Paul Sadoff with a view to add more frames to there portfolio, a deal was struck, and Paul oversaw his hardtail steel frame design which was to be manufactured in the far east and sold here in the UK as ROCK LOBSTER, A well gusseted Cro-Mo frame, at a lower cost but retaining all the traits of the proven California design.

A really great frame that always seemed to be sold out, hardly surprising when the cost to buy one was £250-£295, and the nearest Salsa Al La Carte or Bontrager OR was £695 (all at retail Prices here in the UK.)

The Rest as they say is History, relatively short lived, as the rights to the Rock Lobster Name found its way to Merlin Mail Order as there Flagship Brand sitting above there own Far East Imported frames/bikes under the Merlin Name. Obviously Some of the Frame details remained, Gussets etc, and the range was expanded to other materials too and all were made for Merlin cycles in the Far East.

NTI, still continued to supply there hardtail Steel Frames only from this point forward they were renamed "Amazon" with the model name of "Bladerunner".

I guess, when something is a Good Design, that solves problems, and is "Strong Light and Cheap". Frame builders/Engineers from all over will draw the same conclusions Paul Sadoff-California -Rock Lobster..jpg Nti-Paul Sadoff Designed-Rock Lobster-Far East Manufactured..jpg .
 
Good call…indeed they were always sold out…and no one I knew had one. At the time the review was king, and unless I missed it, no-one reviewed the frames or mentioned them much in MBUK etc. My mind at the time was focussed on ultra thin aluminium (a dead end in my view) and ti (much better) - and we were very sniffy about steel (wrongly). It took some Prestige frames to change my mind, and after a decade of ignoring steel I began to see what KB and Dave Y and others were on about. Rock Lobster were simply a line and a picture in an advert in MBUK, and of mythical status. This is a nice review and update by none other than Chris King….

 
Good call…indeed they were always sold out…and no one I knew had one. At the time the review was king, and unless I missed it, no-one reviewed the frames or mentioned them much in MBUK etc. My mind at the time was focussed on ultra thin aluminium (a dead end in my view) and ti (much better) - and we were very sniffy about steel (wrongly). It took some Prestige frames to change my mind, and after a decade of ignoring steel I began to see what KB and Dave Y and others were on about. Rock Lobster were simply a line and a picture in an advert in MBUK, and of mythical status. This is a nice review and update by none other than Chris King….

I've probably got the Nti Rock Lobster MBUK review somewhere, ill dig it out and post it here.

And if you ever get chance to talk to Paul, Don't mention "NONTRAGERS", I fear it may still be a sore point...;)
 
There rocklobster top_zpsh1l3fsbk.jpg 1994 NTI Rock Lobster pg2_zpscfyjdho8.jpg rocklobster3_zpssesyvefx.jpg
here you go, I had Already posted it elsewhere.
 
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ah ha! Very useful. Geoff Waugh….the Guy Kesteven of the 80‘s...and in MBI, no wonder I missed it, I think I bought MBI only on two occassions…I tried to stop the mountain of hi fi and mtb magazines from building up too much…

I like the writing style… ‘…machines built by automatons which handle like wet sacks…’ Excellent.

And oh dear ‘…quite liked the ride of the Rock Lobster frame…‘, damnation by faint praise indeed. Such statements can kill a product dead in a market. Being brilliant, but second in test can be a killer - something which has been seen in recent years.

It feels as if this review commits the Rock Lobster to mid-range doldrums, neither esoteric nor readily affordable. But the description reminds me of my C16R - mid/lower range indeed, but a brilliant performer. I absolutely loved my C16R. I had many esoteric and expensive bikes lying around, but I luuuurved the ride of the C16R. For sure, people sitting on their exotica would say disparagingly: ‘Oh you’re on your C16R again…’ but for sure they would actually be looking at the rear of my C16R all day, not hanging around waiting for me to catch up….
 

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